My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out

 
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Old 04-19-2009, 04:48 PM   #1
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My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


The 5/4 x 4 casings where they meet the sills are wicking up water. The first that started to go, I carved out the rot, filled it with bondo and repaint. A couple of others are soft to the touch now, the paint shell is intact, but the wood is gone behind.

I really wished I upgraded to cedar from finger jointed pine. I had the rep out and all they'll do is give me some more finger jointed crap. Nothing on labor. They should bed the casing down in some silicone to seal up that end grain.

When Marvin had the same problem years ago, they were paying to replace the whole window, re trim the inside, paint, everything, labor and materials. I did a few of the jobs in the area. It was the baked on 20 year finish so it was a bit different situation but man, 4 years old and having to
replace the casing stinks.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:18 AM   #2
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


For the amount you paid for those windows the mfr is really sticking it to you. At this point I would bite the bullet and replace with Azek or similar trim. If you decide to use the pine at least make sure it isn't finger jointed or you will be doing this again in the near future. the biggest thing you can do to prevent this from happening is to dip the ends of your casing in primer after you cut them and before installation. Bedding in a good caulk doesn't hurt but use a polysulfide and not silcone.

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Old 04-20-2009, 08:04 PM   #3
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Yeah, I'm really surprised they won't do anything. I got the number of the rep's boss and he said the rep "documented a gap between the casing and sill" so that it's my fault for not caulking there. I couldn't believe the guy could say it with a straight face.

I'm going to use cedar. They told me I would have to pay the upgrade and they wouldn't give anything for labor or paint. I didn't bother asking what the "upgrade" charge would be because I might as well just buy 5/4 stock and do it myself. So I guess I get nothing. The whole thing has me so pissed I hate to think about it really.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:07 PM   #4
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Thats a real disgrace that those m-fers dont stand behind there product, its no wonder the manufacturing in this country is going down the ****ter
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:33 PM   #5
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Swallow the turd and trim it with Azek, done, overwith, never do it again. PVC trim is the dogs dipstick.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:36 PM   #6
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


It is a bummer when a company won't stand behind the product.
A few years ago,I was called in to evaluate a window "problem" for a customer. We did give a quote but a competitor won and installed about forty plus windows in a home and pool house using Kolbe and Kolbe windows.
He was experiencing insulated seal failure in the glass units,wood glazing beads that had split and warped and had water stains and rot at the sills.
I immediately contacted the rep,who came down to also evaluate the windows. His response was that they would only supply new glass units and new stock lengths of glazing beads,basically washed his hands of the rotting wood and sills,as these trim items had been field installed. Needless to say the HO was pissed,as original installer was out of business,the cost of labor was not covered,and substantial money would be required to replace rotted sills,install new units and new glass stops/beads would now need to be painted to match. We wound up getting the job to fix everything for him,cut him a deal on the labor,made a new friend and customer out of him.
Upon removing old sills and trim moldings and jamb we noticed that none of the sills and jambs needed to be field cut. Also that only the exposed surface of the wood had been factory primed,we coated every new wood pieces edge of the wood exposed or not with 2 coats primer and sealed everything. Funny how the factory rep made it seem like an original improper install,truth is Kolbe and Kolbe dropped the ball. They didn't want any of the replaced material back. Hope you make out ok.
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Old 04-20-2009, 09:29 PM   #7
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Sorry for your misfortune dubz but that is great news to me! I built a 7,500 sq ft house 15 years ago and the HO insisted on K & K. They never finished paying so I hope all the windows rotted.
Serves the SOB lawyer right. His business was denying Workers Comp claims and skipping out on his own obligations.
I am so happy.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:35 AM   #8
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


I had actually never used Kolbe and Kolbe before my own house. My ex (wife at the time) worked at my local lumber yard so I got all materials 10% over their cost. I had some problems with Marvins the past few jobs so I went with the K&K.
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:11 AM   #9
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


I know the product very well, more so than probably anyone on this website.
The product lines have known issues and are still on the market . with no intent to recoil.

Besides, the saying "you get what you pay for" IS a bunch of hooey. Especially where your warranty is concerned.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:07 PM   #10
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


That blows. If you can't bear to use azek or similar definitely don't use finger jointed. That stuff is the worst crap. I used finger jointed pine for my rake soffits on my addition. The stuff has two coats of finish paint on it and is a little over one year old and already certain pieces are showing through the paint. Not rot mind you, but probably sap wood or something. If you use real wood when you put new casing on put a good oil base primer on all sides and bed the casing to the sill with sikaflex.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:14 PM   #11
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


i recently installed kolbe to replace the 9 year old marvins that were rotting out on this house,but i went with all extruded ex trim
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:27 AM   #12
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Ugh, err um Sterling?. Cap glaze your extrusion extremely well, inside corners especially where the sash sets into the unit frame. In say, 1 year.. come back to this thread and find me, Ill help you fix your leaks.

I hope they don't leak for your sake, I know you paid a lot of money for that unit
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:34 AM   #13
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


[quote=Sewage;1018363]
The product lines have known issues and are still on the market . with no intent to recoil. [quote]

OK I'll try to make this short. I typed out a long comment this morning and it didn't take so I said, forget about. Sewage, if your here for us, OK

I R&Red 2- ten yr. old, totally rotted, K&K windows a couple of weeks ago. I'm not going into detail again but one was in a brick surround, the other, brick 1/2 way up with a dormer above with hardy plank.

I caulked all around the new frames, except the sills, on the brick sills, to allow any moisture that may get in, to escape.

good idea? or seal it up tight?
Obviously the windows shuck, from reading this thread.

Quote:
Besides, the saying "you get what you pay for" IS a bunch of hooey. Especially where your warranty is concerned.
And those windows ain't cheap.
The HO's got no satisfaction from the reps.

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Old 10-02-2010, 07:02 AM   #14
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Kolbe is junk. My plumber built this really nice house and spend a fortune on his kolbe windows and doors about 8 years ago. within a few years, the factory applied casing which was a seamless finish to the main window frame, had hairline cracks, sucked up water and rotted out parts of the windows. Kolbe was hard to deal with and he'll never recommend them. I did a lot of work on his house with Miratech corners, rakes, and fascias so I saw first hand how bad these windows looked. When he called kolbe, they wanted to sell him a maintenance program that you pay each year and some tech comes out and finds the hairline cracks and seals them, fills or whatever they need to do. He must have eventually bitched to the right person, because the ones that were bad got fixed, forgot to ask if he had to pay.

I think that is such a stupid idea to have the casing and the frame all coated at the same time with no seams. I'd rather use a marvin all day long and know the finish will last on their aluminum casings and windows.
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:13 AM   #15
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


We have used Kolbe windows in probably 20 houses. Kolbe's whole appeal is the endless design choices. I have seen the K kron failures, but not a ridiculous amount. The functionality of the unit itself is average or below. I do feel better about the new units with the extruded aluminum casings and nailing fin. There really wasn't a good way to install the older K kron versions without them eventually leaking. Once the water gets behind those casings, the rot starts instantly. We went with Kolbe's recently on an addition we did because we used them 8 years ago on the existing house, The homeowner has not had a slew of problems so far, but it has been only 8 years.
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:30 AM   #16
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Marvin has a ton of design choices and has for a long time, the newer andersons are trying to add features , attempting to catch up with marvin and their hardware choices.
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Old 10-02-2010, 05:37 PM   #17
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Diamond D

I'm here for the consumer, because I am one too..

I would suggest all installation procedures be followed EXACTLY to the instructions that were attached to each unit. This is your warranty, and any deviation from the instructions may result in a warranty void. Document it, video tape it and store it away.

Make sure you place a bead of silicone (not caulking) behind the nailing fins where they interlock with the unit. There is a chance water can travel INTO the nailing fin groove and out the other side.. don't just caulk the perimeter of the rough opening and screw the nailing fin on like normal.

Usually, if there is a leak, Kolbe will distinctly separate outside of frame (your problem) from inside of frame (their problem) as a know all be all method of determining a leak from a water test, even though water will find a way inside your home through factory attached extrusions or other means. So document your installation was done according to their instructions, verbatim. If it were me, (and it never will be) I would seal that unit top, bottom, sideways, in, out and around, twice. Remember, miters are not 1 piece and water will find a way in an opening and spread or wick somewhere else so add a little DIY on top of their instructions to be safe.

Last edited by Sewage; 10-02-2010 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 10-02-2010, 07:47 PM   #18
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Right after the homeowner on a kitchen / bedroom addition last Sept., ordered 4 K&K aluminum extruded casements and a full light door. I read not only this thread but others online with the same issues. The rep for our area lived 1.5 city blocks from the jobsite, knew we were there, and never even stopped by to say whats up.

My marvin, azek, and Ilevel reps make it a point if in the area to stop by.

Anyway, I made sure the tyvek was tight and wrapped in the rough correct ,1x6 cedar lap siding at the sills for slope, and tyvek flex wrap. Caulked top, and sides of flange, trimmed out with azek 1x4, z flashing with lapped corners on head casing. Phenoseal and SW duration on azek. Hardiplank siding with 1/8" gaps at casings caulked with quad.

Moisture still found its way in buckling the finished oak jambs.....

We do not have wind driven rain like alot of places, and made a point to leave the sill un-caulked / sealed for drainage.Text book window flashing and install.

Got the same run around as others have.

Hell, I installed 2 "off the shelf" pella casements with the same flashing technique, etc. in Cape Cod 2 years ago and not a drop.

Im having a hard time chalking these issues up as coincidence, or incorrect installation.
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:53 PM   #19
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


the ho where i used the kolbe would'nt have marvinsthey had thier own problems,i think the key with either brand is to use the extruded trim

the customer service i got from kolbe was first rate and the fit into the hardcoat was incredible considering the origionals were wood marvin....i got about 55 more to go
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:18 AM   #20
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Re: My 4 Year Kolbe And Kolbe Windows Are Rotting Out


Brianfox

It sounds like you were very thorough in your installation. I will assume its done correctly and just go on to what I think you should check at this point provided your still involved with the h/o to get this fixed.

Try removing the sash from the frame and taking a long hard look at the aluminum miters where the sash sat. Look at the seam and see if its been opened. The seams are really weak so apply a bead of clear silicone along the entire length (appx 3 inches) to prevent any water from entering.
Then, take a look at the bulb weather stripping around the perimeter of the sash itself. There should be 2-3 inches cut back on each side of the bottom. What will happen is water will indeed get past this bulb weather stripping and if it has no place to weep, it will collect between the sash and primary seal (where the sash compresses against the stops). When this happens, water will wick up to the wood portion of the sash and elsewhere causing damage.
Sometimes the factory workers forget to cut this weather stripping back 'OR' they will put it on the top instead of the bottom.

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