Milking Time....

robins_aussie

G'day all,
I am curious as I have seen it myself, moreso here in the States than back in Australia, People milk their hours constantly. I mean its hard enough to find good labourers as it is, but when you find someone, they become comfortable with the job and your exectution of jobs over a period of time and then they start to milk time.
This is one of the things that drives me nuts. These days I find the laziest person I can, I tell him what needs to be done and I watch him. A lazy person will figure out the simplest way to do a job and complete it. Then I fire him for taking to damn long anyway as its costing me money and as lazy as he is hes pretty bloody quick to put out his hand and want his wages. Then I hire a competent person and show him how the lazy person did it and I triple my quota. All relevant in the big scheme I reckon.
I just dont know how some business owners survive with the labour they have working for them. Presentation, manners and efficiency are my big things, as I can well imagine most of yours are, so how does one turn a profit with wankers on staff? Lets not get into the theft of company gear, this is pretty much met with pain and anguish lol. Brian and Robin

woodmagman

Don't read between the lines, but your approach to labour seem to put you in the top running to a postion as dick wod maity...The basic concept of business is to hire people that are better at doing something then you are. The person leaning on the shovel is one of two people the boss or the lazy one.
Creativity is not a sign of being lazy, man if I had a few more guy that took the time to find a better way to do things, life would be good.
The shortest distance form point A to point C is by going straight through point B. The Fastest may be by going around B.
My thought would be to spend a little time in the ditch with your lazy employees and find out who they emulate rather then watching them. Give them some guidance, you are paying them from the neck down. If they are giving you from the neck up for free, that is a bonus........

robins_aussie

Gotta love the dickwad comment.
Mate I have hands on with every job I do. I wont ask anyone to do anything that I wont do myself. I get the contracts I get because I am the one who does the homework the concepts and the actual labour up to the finished product. I dont rely on anyone else to complete anything. I have labourers to help complete given tasks and achieve deadlines. You are confusing laziness with creativity.
I know a creative person when I see them work. They are the ones who get looked after and company bonuses for a job well done. I have worked in Japan Australia and the US and dont base any of my knowledge on my immediate surroundings. Travelled waaay to much for that and have learned more from my travells than I could have ever learned from a school or by staying on one spot.
I have bar b ques every friday after work and hand out some tinnies to my workers so they can relax and know that even if it was a hard week and things were stressfull. they are still being taken care of. If someone cant do a job or is having trouble, I get in and show them or work with them to finish the job. My employess are well looked after in all facets. You have a pretty cynical view for someone who reads between the lines. But hey, we all have those days.
People come to me for my work, not my employees work. So wether I wanted to or not, I have to have 100% involvement in any and all projects. I paint mainly cusom bikes and when you are dealing with someones sled that cost them 100 grand, you only want the best working with you. I dont sit behind a desk and I dont stand in the background barking orders. I work for a living. And love it.

woodmagman

I smile as well, your comment about teaching your new employee how to work like the one you just fired has me still confused. How do you get three times the work from someone when the one you base your quota on does nothing in your own words, nothing from nothing, even multipying it by three is still nothing. Granted lazy people are in all walks of life. And milking the boss for money not earned sucks. Cut the bastard loss and don't pass the trait onto any of your other employees. The dude that invented the wheel was not looking for a harder way to pull his buggy full of frosty tinnies.

robins_aussie

Now I am with ya mate....
I didnt word myself properly. If I show the enthusiastic person how the lazy person worked and the easiest way to accomplish a given task, the enthusiastic individual will use that aquired skill and turn out 3 times the amount as it is easier and effortless. Hope im describing this better.
When dealing with custom painting muraling, making fake rock or even graphic and signage, there has to be certain method to work with as I am sure you blokes need to base your methods on. So to find the easiest way to get this done and then forward that same method onto a decent employee always gets things done in a timely fashion. I never judge a man and his ethics until I have worked with him. Then and only then can I make an assessment of his values and his demeanor.
Even now I dont have employees that work for me, they work with me, and we usually end up being mates. A true mate will always know the value of what is expected as I always hope I do with them in return. I cant say as I am correct in all of this, but i watched my father run a big company and treat his workers like ****. I never want to be that way. So instead of reaming them on a mistake I work with them to rectify it and maybe we both learn another way of how not to do something. They do however get a lot of praise when the job is well done.
The comment you made about hiring people better than you is a good one, but has problems. We are a dying breed. Old school blokes like us are not being born anymore. We have hands on trade skills and none of that is even being taught anymore so it is becoming so much harder to find a competent worker. I dont want to hold anyones hand as I am sure you dont, but it is now almost a baby sitting job to some degree while you go through 20 people to find the right one. Having said that, once you find that one person .... your troubles are solved. Hope i expressed myself properly this time. I am just expressing an opinion from 20 odd years of work and travel on 3 continents. I think the thing that gets me in the most trouble these days, especially over here, is my humour. Aussie humour is very misunderstood. So crack another tinnie and start a new day tomorrow.

Putty Truck

Humor? So this thread is a joke!

You may want to avail yourself of our business colleges while you are here. They teach quite a bit about how to hire and develop employees.

Failing your ability to show a valid green card, go learn it on the internet. Mate.

woodmagman

Good on you for not taking offence....your right about work ethic.
Fire the lazy ones and put in the time on the ones the give a little bit extra.
Some guys are 9-5 er's and for a business that deals with the common public, that is what you need. Some come in at 9ish and leave at 5ish. Both can be good employees. The best are the ones the stick it out at crunch time. Those are the ones I share my dark rum with.....

robins_aussie

I just laugh at the people who take offense at gear and try and sound like they know more than they actually do. You however made some good points and it was my fault for not explaining myself right, so no worries. No offense taken. So damn easy to misunderstand text sometimes. No emotion or facial expressions to see what people are thinking. I actually liked your forwardness.
Curious about putty's comments though lol. The valid green card thing firstly, If you want to discuss immigration law I am very well versed in it, so we can go there if you would like.... mate. I am 100 percent legal and wouldnt do it any other way. I like so many Americans am sick and tired of people coming into this country or Australia and abusing it. Living off of our taxes and hard earned cash to support themselves and their families.
As for the business college, I still honestly believe that a person learns more from others and his travells than he will learn from a college. Not saying I am correct here, just a belief. I am 43 and have done my time in learning facilities. I seem to learn more from the bloke I am working next too than anywhere else. Pro's and con's to both i guess. I do employ US citizens in our business and they are great. They have taught me a lot about how things are done here and have helped me to adapt. My wife is a US citizen and she is the best. She also helps me on a daily basis. The humour comment was just made to let you blokes know that I do know my short comings and they are being worked on. So I try and keep my humour on a level that is better understood. Not as bold and brassy as I would back in Australia.
Even terminology can get you into a world of trouble. Over here you guys call your medication... Meds. When some bloke at the airport and customs asked me if I had any meds on me, I had no idea what he was talking about. In Australia meds are tampons, and I was trying to visualise having these things in my wallet. The conversation was interesting until we both clicked. The same as fanny packs. In Australia they are bum bags. A fanny is the front of a sheilas bum. So thats a term I still have trouble using. Let alone trying to drive on the left hand side of the road lol. Anyway I am dribbling. Have a great day everyone. Robin and Brian