Mike Holmes On Homes

 
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:28 PM   #201
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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Originally Posted by Bastien1337 View Post
I wish I was part of the forum when this conversation was new. There is so much I want to talk about but it feels irreverent now. most of it has been said in one way or the other.

The only thing I will comment on is the Licensing issue. I was apart of the the apprenticeship program in Toronto, I had done my pre-apprenticeship which gave me a by for basic. I could go straight to intermediate in the local 27 carpenters union. I worked for the Union for awhile. Now maybe it was different in the past or you needed to be lucky, But unless you felt like doing scaffolding or form work the rest of your life there is nothing to learn doing the apprenticeship through the union it is junk!

I was stuck working for or with yo-yos and it wast until a buddy approached me to work with a real contractor that I actually started to learn true carpentry/home remodeling. Which is what I wanted to get into so I said see-ya-later to the union. I believe that the Local 27 is very disillusioning, It is a deterrent for a lot of young aspiring trades people once they see the difference between what they are learning and what work there actually is to do.

I have a friend who finished his 4 year apprenticeship and I wouldn't trust him to build me a wall let alone take on a renovation or new home build. That has more to do with the Unions focus. It is obsolete, they dont give a heck about what you know or what you can do. Its a business, pay your union dues and STFU. If you get to shoot trim for a day well hey great.

There are thousands of Licensed carpenters in Toronto that will click together some scaffolding for you quick fast, but actual carpentry forget about it.
good feedback from the ground. people always take shots at the guy, i'm just wondering if there's any documentation on him being unlicensed and all the rest. haven't found any in my quick searches.
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:39 PM   #202
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


2nd that!


good feedback from the ground. people always take shots at the guy, i'm just wondering if there's any documentation on him being unlicensed and all the rest. haven't found any in my quick searches.
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:41 PM   #203
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


I used to watch the hell out of that show. But he often sides with the HO on contract price disputes when I don't necessarily agree. He has done a few projects where it was cost plus and the HO obviously changed their minds several times, and then fired the contractor for coming in over the original estimate. A couple of the contractors are suing the HOs.

My biggest complaint is saying stuff like a bathroom this size shouldn't be more than 5000, when they are moving plumbing and electrical and the fixtures are 2000. That crap and doing a 10000 dollar kitchen for 4000, bc its bankrolled by the network, really sets a low budget in HOs minds.

But, he does use licensed guys, and he seems to know his stuff. Also I like that he hammers using quality contractors with good references and talks down the hacks. I like the overalls, I wish I could still wear them. JAW
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:47 PM   #204
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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Originally Posted by Bastien1337 View Post
I wish I was part of the forum when this conversation was new. There is so much I want to talk about but it feels irreverent now. most of it has been said in one way or the other.

The only thing I will comment on is the Licensing issue. I was apart of the the apprenticeship program in Toronto, I had done my pre-apprenticeship which gave me a by for basic. I could go straight to intermediate in the local 27 carpenters union. I worked for the Union for awhile. Now maybe it was different in the past or you needed to be lucky, But unless you felt like doing scaffolding or form work the rest of your life there is nothing to learn doing the apprenticeship through the union it is junk!

I was stuck working for or with yo-yos and it wast until a buddy approached me to work with a real contractor that I actually started to learn true carpentry/home remodeling. Which is what I wanted to get into so I said see-ya-later to the union. I believe that the Local 27 is very disillusioning, It is a deterrent for a lot of young aspiring trades people once they see the difference between what they are learning and what work there actually is to do.

I have a friend who finished his 4 year apprenticeship and I wouldn't trust him to build me a wall let alone take on a renovation or new home build. That has more to do with the Unions focus. It is obsolete, they dont give a heck about what you know or what you can do. Its a business, pay your union dues and STFU. If you get to shoot trim for a day well hey great.

There are thousands of Licensed carpenters in Toronto that will click together some scaffolding for you quick fast, but actual carpentry forget about it.
must be different in canada, here they encourage journeyman to continue to grow their skills with classes you take after work/on weekends. there's a ton of them. at the end of the day it's up to you to grow your skill set, not the union. if you want to do remodels, then you don't want to be in the union, that's just the way it is.

i also went through the pre-apprenticeship here in chicago and out of the 17 people in my class there was maybe 3 of us who finished the 4 years.

your blanket statements are a bit off-putting. some of us are proud union carpenters, we're good at what we do and get great satisfaction out of our work.

you can't really compare your very short experience with local 27 in Toronto with the industry as a whole. just like i couldn't say i worked for one yo-yo remodeling company and say they're all junk

there's good and bad everywhere, most of us would say people who like to do things the way we like to do them are the good ones, some of it is obviously a bit subjective in that way.

i worked with one company when i first joined the union and after they laid me off and i found work with another outfit i realized that i was much better off. hack companies exist in both union and non-union work. it's the company that ends up training you at the end of the day, not the union. i only spent a 4 weeks a year being trained by the union. the other 48 were in the field.
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:48 PM   #205
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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...There is so much I want to talk about but it feels irreverent now...
Man, I love it when someone (probably) used the wrong word but it still works.
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:57 PM   #206
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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Originally Posted by A W Smith

What they DONT address on the show is that sometimes its just as much the clients fault for choosing the lowest possible bid.
What I have observed more recently is that he does question the HO if they went for the cheapest guy and if they check references, etc ... He diplomatically implies that the HO must accept some responsibility. I think it would be beneficial to actually finish the show by stating what the real life non subsidized cost would have been to let viewers understand ... Both the do it right first time cost AND the fix someone else's mess cost! Usually there is nothing more than a flying comment that "this should have been a $50,000 job" or sometime similar. I feel they should also clearly state the timescale as TV show editing makes everything seem to have happened super fast ;-)

On a side note; I just caught an episode of Marriage Under Construction ... They renovated a mud room for $1903 including slate tile, custom bench, paint, insulation, wood slat ceiling, NuHeat plus frilly touches. What they failed to include in the budget was any labour and the designer is also working for free. They mentioned getting things ready for the electrician but there was no labour for said electrician and no permit costs. I wonder if I can apply that principle next time I go out for dinner ... I'll add up the grocery costs and exclude chef, waiter, overheads, etc. Should get me a top notch dinner for $5 LOL
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:29 PM   #207
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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Man, I love it when someone (probably) used the wrong word but it still works.
thats quick spell checking at work I think lol nice catch
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:42 PM   #208
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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must be different in canada, here they encourage journeyman to continue to grow their skills with classes you take after work/on weekends. there's a ton of them. at the end of the day it's up to you to grow your skill set, not the union. if you want to do remodels, then you don't want to be in the union, that's just the way it is.

i also went through the pre-apprenticeship here in chicago and out of the 17 people in my class there was maybe 3 of us who finished the 4 years.

your blanket statements are a bit off-putting. some of us are proud union carpenters, we're good at what we do and get great satisfaction out of our work.

you can't really compare your very short experience with local 27 in Toronto with the industry as a whole. just like i couldn't say i worked for one yo-yo remodeling company and say they're all junk

there's good and bad everywhere, most of us would say people who like to do things the way we like to do them are the good ones, some of it is obviously a bit subjective in that way.

i worked with one company when i first joined the union and after they laid me off and i found work with another outfit i realized that i was much better off. hack companies exist in both union and non-union work. it's the company that ends up training you at the end of the day, not the union. i only spent a 4 weeks a year being trained by the union. the other 48 were in the field.
I am talking solely on my experiences in the local 27 and did not generalize about any or all other unions.

The fact is the first day I walked into the local 27 for one of their initial class meeting after we passed the entry exam, one of the head apprenticeship directors told us straight outta of the gate 80% of the work right now in the union is scaffolding or form work. So im not generalizing my experience about what happened or is happening there. The fact is if you join the Union today, unless you know someone, you are doing scaffolding work with the PERI UP systems in Toronto bottom line. You are not working beside some master carpenter. You are working besides some Italian form worker who is screaming at you in barely understandable English how you are F'ing things up or beside some slack jawed idiot who cant do anything better with his life but put up scaffolding. I wish this was a stereotype but it is truth.

Dont believe me come to Toronto my friend and join the Local 27.

Am I saying "hey there are no more good guys in the union" no I am not. I am saying good luck working with any of them if you are a young apprentice trying to make his way in the world.
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:49 PM   #209
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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Am I saying "hey there are no more good guys in the union" no I am not. I am saying good luck working with any of them if you are a young apprentice trying to make his way in the world.
sounds like 27 could be a specialty local? much like the floor installers, siders and shinglers we have in these parts.

in my area your local is mostly unimportant since the regional council allows us to work anywhere is 50 something counties across many different local jurisdictions.

i've worked with some really good old timers, taught me a lot.

back on topic however, i don't trust anyone with flesh colored eyebrows.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:13 PM   #210
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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thats quick spell checking at work I think lol nice catch
I mean that the word still somewhat works in context. Like one time when the front desk came over the P.A. and said that the alarm we just heard had been determined to be a "farse alarm" (instead of false alarm). Sometimes, it isn't the word the person intended to use but, by golly, it still conveys much the same meaning. Heck, sometimes it works better!
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:23 PM   #211
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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I mean that the word still somewhat works in context. Like one time when the front desk came over the P.A. and said that the alarm we just heard had been determined to be a "farse alarm" (instead of false alarm). Sometimes, it isn't the word the person intended to use but, by golly, it still conveys much the same meaning. Heck, sometimes it works better!
what is this a Japanese high school.......
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:24 PM   #212
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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I am talking solely on my experiences in the local 27 and did not generalize about any or all other unions.

The fact is the first day I walked into the local 27 for one of their initial class meeting after we passed the entry exam, one of the head apprenticeship directors told us straight outta of the gate 80% of the work right now in the union is scaffolding or form work. So im not generalizing my experience about what happened or is happening there. The fact is if you join the Union today, unless you know someone, you are doing scaffolding work with the PERI UP systems in Toronto bottom line. You are not working beside some master carpenter. You are working besides some Italian form worker who is screaming at you in barely understandable English how you are F'ing things up or beside some slack jawed idiot who cant do anything better with his life but put up scaffolding. I wish this was a stereotype but it is truth.

Dont believe me come to Toronto my friend and join the Local 27.

Am I saying "hey there are no more good guys in the union" no I am not. I am saying good luck working with any of them if you are a young apprentice trying to make his way in the world.
Most of the union guys here aren't working union jobs. And when they are, it's mostly form work, too.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:04 PM   #213
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


You don't have to join the union to serve an apprentiship. I've apprenticed 3 carpenters through to their C of Q.

My beef with Mike Holmes is that he is not a licensed carptenter. In Toronto, right on the general contractors license it states all work to be done by licensed trades.

Mike goes on about how you should only hire licensed plumbers and electricians, etc. but ignores carpentry. This is an insult to my trade. That's how I feel about it.

I called him on it on his web site. The "I love Mike" crowd cut me a new one. But no response from Mike. Check his bio. No licenses at all.

So now he's doing home inspections and I'll bet he's not licensed in that either. It's all about what they can market on tv.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:14 PM   #214
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You don't have to join the union to serve an apprentiship. I've apprenticed 3 carpenters through to their C of Q.

My beef with Mike Holmes is that he is not a licensed carptenter. In Toronto, right on the general contractors license it states all work to be done by licensed trades.

Mike goes on about how you should only hire licensed plumbers and electricians, etc. but ignores carpentry. This is an insult to my trade. That's how I feel about it.

I called him on it on his web site. The "I love Mike" crowd cut me a new one. But no response from Mike. Check his bio. No licenses at all.

So now he's doing home inspections and I'll bet he's not licensed in that either. It's all about what they can market on tv.
i got a similar response when i questioned his use of deck screws in joist hangers on his site.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:36 AM   #215
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


From what I have gathered, he started Holmes Inspection because his ex wife had a stake in Holmes on Homes and she was going after his share of the show.

He started Holmes Inspection so that he would have all rights and money gained from it, and sold the rights to Holmes on Homes reruns.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:13 AM   #216
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


For the license issue, I agree that more is better, and encourage it. I think that there is an issue with a "handyman" doing the work of a tradesman, and this lower's the wages of professional carpenters, you don't see the same thing happening with plumbers, sparky's, etc.

However, some of the best carpenter's I trained with weren't ticketed, however I doubt anyone working with them would say to them "you aren't a real carpenter" because of it. I also went to school with guys who are journeyman who have done nothing but scaffolding and concrete work, this is why I left union work, because I wanted to get into remodeling and finish carpentry. (not that there is anything wrong with unions, or heavy construction) I do a lot of drywall repairs, i'm not a journeyman wall and ceilling guy. I do a lot of painting, i'm not a journeyman painter.

I don't think we should put down someone who has skill just because they don't have a ticket, however on the other hand i'm tired of carpenter's not competing in wages with other trades, when they go to school and do the time and write the tests.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:16 AM   #217
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


Generally I think Mike Holmes does good work, however the screw thing leaves me wondering.

One show, his underguy was screwing in hangers for a deck, saying "some guys use nails, but that would take too long" I guess they didn't have an air compressor

Another time, haha, they were building a garage or something, and after screwing the walls together, they attached the sheeting before lifting the walls up, using screws...two of them sitting there, for god knows how long, with impact drivers, screwing all their plywood on....

huh?
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:14 PM   #218
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


He has become some what of a star here in Ontario. Now, new home owners threaten the builders by calling Mike Holmes, not their lawyers when they complain about the way their houses are built.

I think he has to use some of those dewalt tools to make a larger opening so his head can get through the door!!!!!! Well at least they don't show the rose pedals and trumpets sounding when he pulls up to the house. Ha ha ha
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:03 PM   #219
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


the screws issue was sort of addressed in the two part show they did in LA.
now he uses milwaukee on the inspection show, which is kinda interesting.
my understanding is that there are screws that are just as strong as nails for shear strength, though i don't know which screws he uses so i couldn't say. certainly seems like it would take longer and cost more though.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:05 PM   #220
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Re: Mike Holmes On Homes


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the screws issue was sort of addressed in the two part show they did in LA.
now he uses milwaukee on the inspection show, which is kinda interesting.
my understanding is that there are screws that are just as strong as nails for shear strength, though i don't know which screws he uses so i couldn't say. certainly seems like it would take longer and cost more though.
simpson does make screws for them, but the ones he used were clearly not those screws.

edit: have been in a seminar hosted by simpson strong tie and they went over a lot of the common mistakes guys are making installing hangers. not filling holes, using the wrong fasteners, the typical stuff.


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