Litigation Threat

Bodger

I'll be calling my attorney about this, of course. But thought I would get a take from the pros as well.

I did a remodel and bed/bath addition last year. The HO was a single professional woman who traveled a lot. She procrastinated something fierce about the hardwood flooring, and whether she wanted to do the entire house, or just the added new bedroom and hallway for now and the rest later. Everything else was done, including baseboards, all that remained to be done was the flooring and the base shoe piece after that.

I brought in my flooring contractor, he gave a fair market price and threw in the demolition and haul-away of the old flooring for free. She decided to do the entire house, rip out the old, put in new, obviously including the newly constructed areas.

Before I could get a contract signed for my flooring guy, the HO hired an unlicensed, unbonded, uninsured illegal to come in and do the flooring. His price was $3000 less than my legit guy. The day this mope showed up, he claimed that his price was only for labor, and that the materials would be another $4000! The HO had moved everything out of the entire house into the garage and was on her way to France so she told him to go ahead.

I had explained to the HO that I could not contract with this unlicensed guy, could not pay him, and would not supervise or otherwise be responsible for this work. I even told her that to protect myself, I should go to the building department and recuse myself as the contractor of record to keep out from under any liability. I didn't do this.

Now, the flooring has begun to do some bad things. It's select oak, stained and poly finish. It is cupping, and I think maybe this guy didn't let it acclimate in the house long enough.
In any case, this woman's father has called me and insists that I am on the hook for this, and will sue me if I don't step up and make it right. They repeatedly tried to call "Juan", the flooring installer she hired, but guess what, his phone is disconnected.

Anyone have any precedents or experience with this type of thing?

KentWhitten

I wouldn't waste your money talking with your lawyer yet. They are swatting flies. They want to place some blame on someone, I really don't see how it could end up in your lap, but you never know. It doesn't usually go to litigation first thing, it would be more likely to go to arbitration and still I wouldn't make the call.

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If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

Bodger

Yeah, I'll probably sit tight and see what gives. I did not have the C of O until after this guy did the flooring, so I was the contractor of record right through final. That's the thing that I thought might somehow put this plate of crap at my table somehow.
Best advice is to wait like you said.

JSC

Not that it's desirable, but I think you're in a good position to countersue and win (at least for any attny fees expended)if the ho sues you. Total b.s., but you already know that.

mickeyco

Who paid the guy?




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Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

We Fix Houses

The gal's father probably just listened to her edited story and said he would look into it. What would you do for your daughter ? Happens every day.

You don't have a problem until you have a problem. Sounds like you're in the clear. The shoe's on the other foot...Co or no Co....nobody can keep the owner from doing what they want to their own house. You never agreed to it. It can't be supported.

Everything you say will be used against you....so don't say anything. Not even about the weather.

Bodger

The homeowner paid the flooring "contractor".
Probably went back to where he came from and built a whole house with the modest profit.

mickeyco

In that case, since the homeowner hired and paid for the guy the only thing I'd say to her or her father is, you should have used my guy, maybe next time. Then ask how much money they saved, was it worth it, and if they know it's against the law to hire an illegal alien.





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__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

tinner666

Doesn't sound like you still had a contract. You could offer to get your flooring contractor to come in and redo it, with a contract.

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Frank Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va.

Bodger

That was exactly what I told the HO originally, I could not be part and parcel to an illegal alien, unlicensed contractor working on the site.
I wonder if anyone has included a protective clause in their contracts for this type of thing. I'm assuming so.
I haven't heard from the HO, nor have I called her. I'm saying little, and sticking with the explanation that it would have been illegal for me to hire or pay the guy in the first place, informed the HO of same, and bowed out of all involvement. I just don't the actual legal precedents and guidelines for this type of thing.

Adding to my annoyance over this, the HO was someone referred to me by the homeowners of my current large project, and they see each other socially. I don't want to poison the well if you know what I mean.

Bodger

The father is not willing to hear the full story or listen to my reasons why I wasn't involved or responsible for the flooring. I can appreciate him trying to protect his daughter if he feels she has been wronged or ripped off, but the irony is that is exactly what I was trying to do when I politely admonished her not to hire a fly-by-night flooring guy in the first place.

Jason Whipple

That's it! Not your problem at all. Tell them you stand behind everything you and your sub's do, but be firm that when they hire their own "cheap labor" it has nothing to do with you.

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Bodger

Sounds like the best advice. I was hoppin' mad at the time anyway, I can't stand to see good business go to someone who isn't even supposed to be IN this country without documentation, let alone go around sniping business from legit guys.
Didn't know what to do about though, the HO still owed me the final.

Jason Whipple

If they still owe you the last payment, I would also go ahead and ask for it. If they are using this as a reason to not pay you, you'll know soon enough. Use you lien rights if that is the case. Don't let them stall you with excuses especially if it has nothing to do with the work you did.

__________________
Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Bodger

I worded that badly, I received final payment after the flooring was done and I had completed an exterior deck. This new complaint about the flooring is after all has been paid.

woodchuck2

It would seem that if they hired the guy, they paid him and this fella did not sub-contract through you then you are not legally liable for his work or wrong doing.
I have seen other contractors pull building permits for this kind of thing in the past. HO hires someone who will work for less and boot out the contractor, contractor pulls building permit since his/her business name is on permit and would be liable for new contractor.

MBS

I would ask the HO/HO's father to show how it is that you are responsible? Where is the chain of responsibility that leads to you? Just saying you are responsible doesn't make it so. You could also tell them you want a letter of explanation from their attorney immediately. Call their bluff and end it.

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I think I say OOPS!! out loud way to often.

Bodger

Sounds good.
Also, I wonder if this girl's father is aware that when his daughter hired and paid this guy, she was breaking the law. Juat like hiring a housekeeper with no docs and not taking withholding or supplying a 1099 to the IRS.
I'm not too worried about this, but the way things are sometimes, seems like the contractor is always wrong.
In my opinion, this bolsters the concept of tightening up the borders to prevent these scumbags from being here in the first place.
Hell, I don't even like it when the HO insists I use a tradesman they know who IS licensed.

Brock

What would it take to fix it? Obviously it is manufactures problem. Acclamating is a steaming pile of bs. The manufacture can't prove it wasn't acclamated (to begin with). I would play nice and step in and fix this guys mess for hundreds on the dollar, but it sounds like you already stubbed your toe on this one by the way you postured yourself from the get. You missed an oppurtunity to double your profits and save this lady from herself and her bad decisions.

Brock

and a sidenote.

Your permit dept. can supply you with a form for the H/O to sign. It is called the "Responsibility Assignment Agreement". We have H/O doing all kinds of stuff on our jobs including electrical, HVAC, plumbing, ect. The agreement releases you from any liability except what you actually completed.