Learning At Minimum Wage

Mark Twenhafel

Yeah, I know what you're saying. Maybe you can tell me if you think it's worth it.

It's a private "school", sponsored under the local Home Builders Association, run and taught by a GC with about 40 years experience who seems pretty well connected locally. The school is one-year long, has 8 six-week rotations of full-time employment, rotating through different trades. That's the minimum-wage part. And there is 4 hours of classroom a week, which is based on the sixteen divisions of the old Construction Specification Institute book.

Personally, I'm finding it very valuable, so far. We're the second class. The guy running it (and he's still a full-time GC) had 10 years teaching construction technology at the local community college, but got frustrated there by the "Gameboy generation" type students and the educational-system bureaucracy. Here, miss or be late three times and you're out! As he said, there's an appeal process and it begins and ends with him.

So far, I've worked at a cultured marble/manufactured granite/kitchen & bath remodeler and for a GC putting in a 50-lot subdivision.

Last year's grads (and only 14 out of 55 successfully completed the program) are working as assistant super training to be super, foreman (except she's a woman), estimator who functions more like a project manager, one as a laborer, another (guy was disabled) graduated from building inspector school after doing half the class. Also, even though the business is slow here (everywhere), I've heard that one contractor was trying to hire away one of the grads who was already working for someone else.

What do you think?

Downeast

Thats allot lol. The important thing is that if it works for you then thats all that matters.

Seems a good deal to take that course and end up as assistant super.As a worker or sub I certainly would scratch my head thinking ,this person is going to be my boss with six weeks experiance in a few of the trades. But if there are no jobs around for that ,it leaves you as a basic rookie in any of those trades.

Getting into the air conditioned job trailer isn't a bad way to go .Understanding more of whats going on in the construction of commercial or/and residential is also good if you are going to advance to developer,spec builder more so than just becoming a contractor/sub in one of them.

Also if they are schooling you more so than just being a lumper of sorts,thats good too. Ya show up and the contractor says after you break down that pile, grab that shovel and dig me some footings, I would say you are just being used for some temp cheap labor.

Mark Twenhafel

So far, it's been a little of both, but good overall. Yeah, I spend a lot of time with the shovel, pickaxe and wheelbarrow, but the super where I'm at always makes time to show us things or teach us things. Plus, you learn a lot by being on the site and keeping your eyes open and mind working.

The first place, the cultured marble company, the president of the company was supportive, so I got moved around and saw all aspects of the company, 'cause that's what he wanted.

It's what you make of it. I hear you on the relative inexperience of 6-weeks versus actually knowing the trade. Out here, when things were flying high, they were taking people out of other professions (parole officer comes to mind) and making them supers after only a few weeks of "training" by following around some other super. That's not my goal anyway.

It's what you make of things for yourself, IMHO. For instance, on my own initiative I've started reading the IRC and working out my own versions of quality assurance checklists. I'm using this year as a focus for both what I can learn from that they provide and what I can do on my own initiative. There's folks in the program who seem to think that it all should be provided for them. For instance, now that work is thinning out a bit, there isn't enough work to go around all the time. But, I don't see many in the class taking to initiative to contact contractors on their own.

The whole program started a couple of years ago because work out here (Arizona) was so crazy that builders couldn't hire enough workers--and many that they had to settle for were the type to show up in the morning with "nose candy" still hanging off their moustache.

For my goals, it's working. My goals are to (1) build a house; (2) build a rental property; (3) see if the numbers add up to do a little remodeling work or small infill development.

I'm looking forward to a few weeks from now when we'll get a set of prints--a production home that's no longer being built--and start learning estimating.

Here's a question for anyone in the business: Maybe some of you are familiar with schools today who require kids to keep a "portfolio" of their work. (We called it a "notebook" when I was a kid.) I'm starting to put together something like that to show when I start talking to employers. My plan is to go from blueprints, note in how construction details are required by code, develop a set of checklists for each stage of construction from slab work to rough in to finish, and include detailed estimates. Would this be greeted as so much hooey from an inexperienced greenhorn, or might it be looked on favorably? I'm leaning towards working for a remodeler or a small infill developer-builder, and have specific companies in mind at this point.

Of course, it all depends on there the economy goes over the next year...

Thanks,
mark

thom

Several issues here.

This is certainly not the first construction school. There have been schools teaching construction trades, including both classroom and field work for a long time. I taught at one of them about 30 years ago.

Detailed portfolio. When you go looking for a job, the guy hiring you is going to wonder what take-offs of an entire project have to do with that specific trade. Likely he's going to figure your real agenda is to work there a short time and leave, eventually becomming a GC.

Doing estimating, especially in remodeling, takes a lot of experience. After doing remodeling for 19 years, I switched to new construction, spec houses. New is way easier. Your not dealing with tear out, matching, tie-ing in, and live on site customers.

If you were applying for a job with me, I would not be impressed. I've had my share of employees who thought they new better than me how to run my business. I find that attitude annoying.

Downeast

Guy I am working with now is going to a trade school. He says that he has a person he knows that has the money to build some condos and that he is going to run the job. He already has an associate degree in business of some sorts. What he has told me of the course I am not convinced that he needed that particular school,but its his life.

The guy I am working for is a really good guy and was the first residential framer I worked for twenty years ago.

This student is trying hard and is eager to learn on the job,then goes to school at night with a near two hour drive both ways,Lives here on the cape and travels to warrwick RI for the school. He is making 17.00 hr. and can hardly get the plywood cuts right.Fact he was transfered over to the line because his cuts and headers sucked so much. When he and I get to work on the same wall or what ever I look up to see him looking at me. LOL its taking me time to realize he dosen't know the next step so I have to tell him.He is over paid for what this area puts out,but the contractor is a generous guy and treats us really well. He has a lull to which makes our day easier.

But if he moves in the right directions and can get money behind him He won't be long for the tool belt anyway.

He takes pictures all the time and it cracks me up. I wanted to say take a pic of that pile of bad cuts and put that in your note book lol.

He is a good guy though ,he is trying. The otheer thing is when his cell phone rings and he answers, and ya hear I love you too. I am like dude ya just kissed her good bye an hour ago when she dropped you off.lol

Mark Twenhafel

Thanks for the input. Not sure what else to say.
Mark T.

tkle

There's a commercial on T.V.for a construction management school.It shows two guys measuring from the corner of a building, across a window to the jam on the other side.Why, is beyond me.First they should already have the measurement from the plans,second it doesn't take two people to take a measurement, third and most annoying is the damn tape's crooked.
I took trade courses at a jr. college.Some were good ,some were a waste of time.They all counted when I got my license.You just have be careful and use common sense.Hey,at least you're getting paid.