Inspector breaking my balls or what? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Mike Finley · 02-27-2007, 07:01 PM

Rough plumbing inspection for one of these -

Inspector tags us because we don't have any documentation that shows this valve conforms to ASSE 1016, pressure balanced product.

I had to call Moen and have them fax me certification documents and rush back to the office to fax them to the inspector in order to get passed and be allowed to continue on with the rest of our inspections.

I've installed a half-dozen of these and lots of other Moen products and never once gone through this before.

I wanted to tell him this thing costs 800 bucks, it ain't something purchased at Wal-mart. You really think it looks like it wouldn't be pressure balanced at a minimum?

dirt diggler · 02-27-2007, 07:03 PM

woah wait ...

hold on a minute ...

you mean you had an inspector actually get out of his truck ... and walk???

wackman · 02-27-2007, 07:15 PM

You forgot the box of donuts, coffee and nuggets tickets didn't you....

**Teetorbilt** · 02-27-2007, 07:17 PM

Sounds like a bums rush to me. Newbie inspector?

I had the same problem with a Hans-Groghe a year ago. My assumption is that inspectors don't go through CE courses other than code and the Euro stuff throws them for a loop. Even Porsche is making fixtures now!

mdshunk · 02-27-2007, 07:19 PM

Why did you tick off your inspector?

Every once in a while I'll get a different inspector than normal, and he'll ask me to provide some document or enforce something that's traditionally not been enforced. Don't take it personal. It's part of being a contractor. They guy literally was doing his job. He was just going the extra mile that most inspector's wouldn't have. Water off a duck's back. I really enjoy my inspectors. Even the hard nosed one's.

Mike Finley · 02-27-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdshunk

Why did you tick off your inspector?

You really have to ask? If you don't know me by now!

Mike Finley · 02-27-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teetorbilt

Sounds like a bums rush to me. Newbie inspector?

I had the same problem with a Hans-Groghe a year ago. My assumption is that inspectors don't go through CE courses other than code and the Euro stuff throws them for a loop. Even Porsche is making fixtures now!

I have a sneaky suspicion he had no idea what he was looking at. I hate to even think that about these guys, but I know we do a lot of stuff that isn't just the basic crap Sterling change out. Smelled like a CYA scenario to me, put the burden of proof on me for something anybody with half a brain wouldn't even be considering.

mikesewell · 02-27-2007, 08:01 PM

LOL, try commercial construction.

Last fall, in the middle of pouring the foundation walls for a 18,000 square foot building, the quality control inspector informed us that our concrete didn't have enough air content to pass his inspection.

mikesewell · 02-27-2007, 08:16 PM

Oh yeah, no cold joints allowed, so we had to keep pouring while we were resolving the issue.

Driftwood · 02-27-2007, 08:37 PM

Mike, if You think that's ball busting, You,d never make it in the Bay area.

Mike Finley · 02-27-2007, 10:42 PM

You're probably right, I'm not big on fools or anybody wasting my time or getting in the way of trying to make a living. Especially a public servant. I'm always up for playing by the rules, but nothing burns my ass more then when you do follow them and they try to change the rules mid-stream on you for nothing more than because they can or they don't know any better. I have no patience for anything like that at all.

I've always been a pro supporter of permits and inspections but not for mental masturbation.

Tscarborough · 02-27-2007, 10:46 PM

His request sounds like a legitimate RFI to me. If he is not familiar with the product, why is it a problem to educate him? Save yourself and others time down the road at the cost a of fifty cents worth of ink.

Lee J · 02-27-2007, 11:54 PM

We did a four story gut and rebuild, turning a single family building into 4 condo's. The building inspector dropped in on us one day. A new guy, I hadn't seen him before. after looking at the framing for a while, he said to me, "what are those metal things?" I didn't have a clue what he was talking about, until he pointed. Uh, I believe they call them metal studs. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then he asked me why we were using them!

One thing he didn't ask is why we were building 4 units, while the plans called for three. We snuck one unit in.

He later admitted that this was his first day as a building inspector. Until earlier that morning, he was a city accountant. The previous building inspector was required to retire earlier in the day, or be arrested.

Only in Philly.

As a partner in a small pizza chain, when we open a new location, I get to be the builder. Surprised?

Anyway the latest location was in Delaware. The plumbing inspector would stop by early on in the project, and warn us not to touch the plumbing. But he was nasty about it. I would ask him for a business card and he would refuse to give me one. The week before Christmas, we excavated in front of the buildings to start the wheelchair ramp. This entailed blocking the sidewalks with piles of dirt. We had caution tape and cones all over the place, along with "sidewalk closed, please use other side", signs. 100% by the book.

Anyway, this inspector shows up and starts screaming at my partner.
I told you not to touch the plumbing. My brother in law had no idea how to deal with him. I was busy working in the ditch, but listening, and getting madder by the moment. We go out of our way to do things right, and by the book.

I soon got tired of this guy, so I went up to him and cursed his ass out big time. I pointed out we were not working on plumbing. He said we're violating safety rules anyway with the sidewalk being blocked. I told him it was the city's idea to do the ramp. He said it's a dangerous situation for the neighborhood residents. They could get hit by a car walking in the street. I told him if they're too stupid to cross the street, and use that sidewalk, F-'em, that's what we have insurance for. That really pissed him off.

Then I got back in the ditch and started working again.

He said to my brother in law, "I'm tired of dealing with that clown, who's the owner of this property". I said "that would be me". Then he said, "ok who's the contractor here?" I said , that would be me also. Do you want to deal with this clown now?

I got out of the ditch with my business card in hand and walked back up to him. I said here's my card. I've asked you for your's four times now and you've refused to give it to me". Then I asked him if he's supposed to be talking to people like this. I suggested going downtown with him and talking to his boss. It was like someone turned on a light switch. All of a sudden we were best friends.

He kept telling me he wouldn't be back to bother us anymore, we don't have a problem, have a merry christmas. He went on for a while and then left.

Sometimes they just need a guy to stand up to them.

woodmagman · 02-28-2007, 12:18 AM

Mike Finley...we installed this exact spa set in a reno done this year and the inspector was more interested in the plumbing that ran from the diverter to the water heads then the product itself. His concern was the pressure being uneven on the four heads. He did not enforce any thing though.
Inspectors can jamb up progress, but good ones are ones that enforce enforable items and question items that are questionable.
ps. don,t market this as a water jet, it is a spa. Unless you have crazy water pressure....

K2 · 02-28-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

You're probably right, I'm not big on fools or anybody wasting my time or getting in the way of trying to make a living. Especially a public servant. I'm always up for playing by the rules, but nothing burns my ass more then when you do follow them and they try to change the rules mid-stream on you for nothing more than because they can or they don't know any better. I have no patience for anything like that at all.

I've always been a pro supporter of permits and inspections but not for mental masturbation.

In my part of the state bs from inspectors was part of the job. To me inconsistency was the greater annoyance... I fired a dumbsh*t who became an inspector. I married an inspector who would put a 6" level in a 100 ft gravel filled trench, (she was a 9 maybe a 10)... Seemed when we got into 5 mil commercial buildings the same inspectors bothered us less. I think they were so overwhelmed by their lack of knowledge that they just signed and walked away.

In this area a little carport will cost 2k in engineering and soils before you put a shovel in the ground. I can put up a pretty nice carpot for 2k that will probably last a long long time.

TempestV · 02-28-2007, 09:02 AM

My dad's company at one point built a commercial building for the guy that does most of his flooring

all the plans were approved by the city and state, including a kinda steep staircase. anyways, they built the stairs exactly as they show on the plans, and the inspector shows up and tells them that they are going to have to change the stairs because he doesn't like how steep they are. my dad tells him that they are built exactly as the plans show, and the plans passed the city and the state. It still took a bit of a fight to be signed off

Mike Finley · 02-28-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tscarborough

His request sounds like a legitimate RFI to me. If he is not familiar with the product, why is it a problem to educate him? Save yourself and others time down the road at the cost a of fifty cents worth of ink.

Like I said, I've always been a big proponet of permitting and inspectors, but not foolishness. $800 valve that isn't pressure balanced? Give me a break. Cost to us for all this is way more than 50 cents of ink. I don't know about others but every moment of my day is scheduled when it comes to working on these jobs, having to cut bait to drive back and forth for faxes and making phone calls and hunting down inspectors to get them information to avoid having a string of other inspections cancelled and my subs schedules destroyed over foolishness has much bigger consequences. My schedulues are like dominos set up to fall into one another, somebody puts his finger on one of those dominos and stops the string and it's a pretty big deal.

I'm not saying any of this is earth shattering, it is starting to sound like I am because of defending some of the comments, while this is just another incident in a long string of issues you have to deal with in this business, even though in the big picture it is minor, it still is a petty issue that should not have to be dealt with, no matter how consequential or inconsequential the results.

Lee brings up another good point in all this

Quote:

One thing he didn't ask is why we were building 4 units, while the plans called for three. We snuck one unit in.

Here we are on this job removing the existing jetted tub, we left a 36x24 hole in the floor open so the inspector could inspect the dead-ending of the drains, vents and water feeds. He never even saw the hole! He never even looked in it. There is no bathtub going back in, only a 7'x6' huge sitting area where the tub was. Wouldn't a guy who's job it is to inspect these things have kind of a mental check list of -bathrooms... toilets... sinks... showers... bathtubs... oh yeah, where is the bathtub? No rough in for it, no drains? Huh, maybe I should look at this huge hole in the floor, maybe I should look at the drawings attached to the permit card? Maybe I should ask about it?

T bone · 02-28-2007, 09:35 AM

To get a residential remodel permit here in Ft Worth we're required to drive to city hall, find parking, go thru security, sign in, wait in line (I've spent over an hour in line on several occaisions), apply for the permit, wait in line to visit with the tech who approves (hopefully) your plan, go back to the application area and pay. I've heard that other municipalities will process permits by fax so you don't have to go through that hassle. Anyone enjoying that?

Moscow · 02-28-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T bone

To get a residential remodel permit here in Ft Worth we're required to drive to city hall, find parking, go thru security, sign in, wait in line (I've spent over an hour in line on several occaisions), apply for the permit, wait in line to visit with the tech who approves (hopefully) your plan, go back to the application area and pay. I've heard that other municipalities will process permits by fax so you don't have to go through that hassle. Anyone enjoying that?

We do that here for plumbing, mechanical, electric, and some building like re-roof, siding , window change out, and decks. As for the inspectors, I think that they should have to work in the field befor they can inspect anything and not just take a test to be an inspector. That is on good thing about Idaho the only way you can be a plumbing inspector you have to have 4 years of apprentice ship and 4 years of work pass the Jouynmans test work as a journyman for 2 years and pass the inspectors test then you can be an inspector. I do belive that is the same for electrical also. As an inspector I looke is it to code and if it is not to code will it work in the way it is installed, is it going to do harm to somebody or property if not I will pass it and let them know how it should be done next time.

See we are not all bad in fact some of use are out to help you and make sure your job goes smooth, so done condem all of use nasty inspectors because there are a few on a power trip.

Good luck
Justin

mdshunk · 02-28-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moscow

As an inspector I looke is it to code and if it is not to code will it work in the way it is installed, is it going to do harm to somebody or property if not I will pass it and let them know how it should be done next time.

Thank you, Justin. That is my typical experience with inspectors also. Is it fair to say that you work for an inspection agency, and not a municipality?