I Need Union Member Advice.

BKA

I've become aware of a local IUPAT union competitor who has started a new company. It is operating out of his home with his wife registered as CEO and Responsible Managing Officer. He is not on any public documents. She worked for his company and was an officer / RMO for that company. That is how she got her own license, via that employment / role.

The goal of this company is to do the non union work that the original company can't do / looses due to union costs.

How do union people recommend I proceed with regard to this competitor?

Speedy Petey

If he is doing "non union work that the original company can't do / looses due to union costs", what is the problem?
It's not like he is "stealing" work.

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concretemasonry

It looks like he and she made a sensible decision to form a company to compete on jobs the union company could not compete on. I assume he has different employees unless the union permitted the men to go on a leave or temporary withdrawal.

Much depends on the state laws regarding unions (right to work, etc.).

The new company could also qualify as a minority/woman owned business on projects that require that type of contractor. Maybe the union should assist her in getting those specialized contracts to keep her busy. - Its been done before.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

Glasshousebltr

Why is it that a crap load of Union fellas around the country feel this is some kind of legal violation. Even if he were competing against the Union this is a free country, and when ya knock out competition in a competitive market ya get handful of Wallmarts. Sooner or later crippling the competition will benefit no one.

However I do agree that he needs to have his card pulled. It's one or the other. If he wants to play both sides of the field he needs to move to San Francisco and have some Rice-A-Roni.

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Bob

BKA

He lives in a high wage area but has to do work in low wage areas. So this is how he is trying to avoid paying his local high wages when his men travel.

It just really smells to me. He is getting the benefits of being a union man while, now, none of the costs. It used to be ok to have a union shop with a proverbial front union door and a back non union door. But that was squashed by the union. Now he is just running the non union out of his home vs. out of his office. I believe his union men are 'doing this off union work on the side.' He already keeps em bussy 100% of the time, so now they cut there hours on the union side, and pick up time on the non union side. I'm willing to BET he will be using his union men as foremen in the new company and pay them more to train up untrained labor.

It just makes me even less competitive against him. I'm loosing jobs left and right to him. I used to beable to rely on him not traveling too far out of his zone. Now he is going to be everywhere I can get.

So what should I do as a COMPETITOR? Should I do the same? But that seems like some bad mojo.

Ed the Roofer

If you are trying to pin him down under the terms of the uion agreement "HIS" company has, then the union that he is signatory with would be the most interested party.. They will not have a motive nor desire to do so until the work undertaken by company B infringes on work one of their signatory contractors would have had a reasonable chance to acquire and lost due to the unlevel playing field.

Also, they would most likely wait until a sufficient amount of wages have been paid and time has elapsed so that they could pierce the alter-ego company identity. They would look for commonality of business operations, such as tools, trucks, equipment, bank accounts, location of business operations, methods of phone contact and anything else that may show the two parties are actually acting as one business, except for the paperwork trail they are hiding.

If they cross several of those boundries and especially, if that is the trypical circumstance rather than an occasional fluke, they will have exposed themselves to the double-breasted argument to be made on behalf of the union attorney.

Documentation and time will decide which way they will be playing their hand regarding doing the seperater entities completely absent from and duality between them

Ed

masonking02

that goes on alot union contractors have non union outfits on the side

Zero Punch

"He lives in a high wage area but has to do work in low wage areas. So this is how he is trying to avoid paying his local high wages when his men travel."

If the low wage area is covered by a collective wage agreement separate from the high wage area that he has an agreement with he only has to pay those wages and benefits under the low wage area agreement, his employees tho do not have to travel to work there they can refuse.

There is about $10-15 difference in wage packages among the metro area and rural/small town collective agreements it's easy to get workers from those areas to travel to the big city when there employers pick up jobs there but it's mostly one way.

JustaFramer

In some areas Unionized work force is only in commercial work mostly heavy. When it gets to residential the Union could give to ****s less about it because the boys don't want that low wage work any way. That and 1099 abuses if they know you do it they will find a way to bust you.

Diesel65

I would say get on with your business and leave well enough alone, in my experience "what goes around comes around". There is one company I know off that has union and non union workers in the same shop, the union guy's do their part the non union do there's.

Put your effort into your company and the things you can control, if they are breaking laws or regulations they will get theirs in time.

just my 2 cents.

KillerToiletSpider

If someone from his local union "accidently" learned of what he is doing, they could audit his books and effectively put him out of business, depending on how strong the union is in your part of the country.

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C.C.R.

Everytime I meet someone from the local union I ask them the same questions. And so far it's about 50/50. -- Do the benefits outway the negatives of being in the union. I'm curious because I've toyed with the idea of joining. As a carpenter not a contractor. One answer that seems to be constant is " there is alot of sitting around" Any thoughts.

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Stone Mountain

As long as the guy doesn't blur the lines between the two businesses, I see nothing morally wrong. If you can't compete against him (I'm unclear whether you are or are not union yourself), then you should take a good look at your own operation to become more competitive.

Many years ago, I was doing a lot of commercial work, particularly hoarding around construction sites. There was only one union fence company in the ciyt, and most of the construction unions turned a blind ey when I went in because it was right at the beginning of a job and there were usually no union personnel on site.
Until one day the inevitable happened, and a rep from an electircal union protested.
After much haggling, and the GC being forced to offer the union fence company the contract (they were friends of ours and they refused the job), we continued.
We sat down with the labourers union and hashed out an agreement. I would maintain one union crew for commercial work, and would be allowed to maintain my non union crews for residential work. (the other fence company had a similar arrangement). Obviously union wages at the time would have made me rediculously uncompetitive in residential, so they agreed.
This would have been much like the fellow you are complaining about, but at the time the union was enthusiastic about it.
Unfortunately, the process dragged out over 3 months, and by the time the agreement was ready to be signed, management had changed and the union demanded that I go all union. Of course, I declined.
To this day, I still do hoarding without being union.

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