I Need Serious Advice

bmaurice · 09-15-2009, 06:07 PM

Ok, ill try not to ramble. i started working for this gentleman about a 2 months ago to be a roofing forman. he was looking to start a roofing crew from scratch. that was a first red flag for obvious reasons, but i rolled with it. first day of working i filled out a w-2 form. i stressed i did not want to be 1099, mainly because i was useing his ladders compressor etc, and i dont have any insurance. pay day comes and he explains he hasnt put me on the books yet. so he just writes me a check. 2 weak same story and on and on. now im only 23, i havnt bean in the bussiness for very long so i guess i trust people to much. so today i started a nice 12/12 pitch roof, and i told him a i need 25 brackets and 11 16' planks, he showed up with about 1/4 of that and told me to make due and gave me a deadline to finish that was real close even if i had everything i needed. so that made me start thinking that im going to get screwed not to mention he has no idea about the work itself hes just a buisenes man. so i called him and stressed that i needed to be on the books. and he said hes going to put me on the books next weak and all the previous weaks he wrote w-4's for, and i did some research and its pretty much the same thing as a 1099. so now im going to probably owe like 600 bucks in taxes. i dont even know how he 1099 me without my signiture or anyhting. not to mention i dont even have liability insurance. sorry for rambiling but any advice would be apreciated. i think i might be geting in over my head.

Aggie67 · 09-15-2009, 06:22 PM

You're getting hosed. Call the state labor department. Better yet, tell the guy "I spoke to the state labor department yesterday, and they're sending me some info to help you get your paperwork in order. They said if you need help, that I should call them back and let them know and someone will come down and help you. They seemed pretty serious."

Maybe that's a little extreme. But I would do that in a heartbeat.

When we hire people, we give them a written offer letter on our letterhead with all the details, that they need to sign and give back to us. It may be too late for that (he'll more than likely screw you over at this point).

In my opinion, this looks like a duck and is quacking like a duck. Treat it like a duck and call the labor department.

freemason21 · 09-15-2009, 06:24 PM

tell him he can keep you off the books and 1099 but you want a raise to cover insurance. right now he's screwing you big time to benefit himself, and at your expense. thats my 2 cents. anyone else?

CCCo. · 09-15-2009, 06:50 PM

A couple questions that come to mind.

On these previous checks, did he withhold any of the amount for taxes or pay you all that was owed?
If so then maybe he is either
A. Going to screw you, or
B. Really is planning on getting things in order.

If the answer is no, No withholdings taken out, and you cashed the checks, Then of course he is going to 1099 to show where those payments went. He already has your S.S #, & Check stubs paid out to you! Trust me you don't need to sign anything, he just prints up the 1099 form and attaches your S.S # and your had, Simple.

Legally he has to report it one way or another,
and reporting them off to you is going to lower his tax liability.

I will say one thing though, if you fall and kill yourself,..You'll be SOL Because you have no insurance, and you aren't on his books.

Sooo, Be Careful

bmaurice · 09-15-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo.

A couple questions that come to mind.

On these previous checks, did he withhold any of the amount for taxes or pay you all that was owed?
If so then maybe he is either
A. Going to screw you, or
B. Really is planning on getting things in order.

If the answer is no, No withholdings taken out, and you cashed the checks, Then of course he is going to 1099 to show where those payments went. He already has your S.S #, & Check stubs paid out to you! Trust me you don't need to sign anything, he just prints up the 1099 form and attaches your S.S # and your had, Simple.

Legally he has to report it one way or another,
and reporting them off to you is going to lower his tax liability.

I will say one thing though, if you fall and kill yourself,..You'll be SOL Because you have no insurance, and you aren't on his books.

Sooo, Be Careful

He paid me by personal checks no stubs and he even gave me time and a hlaf over 40. im shocked you dont even need consent from the person to 1099 them. if i tell the labor board the verbal agreement was it was to be under the table will that come back on me for even agreeing? think theres anyway to get it on his taxes. i dont even have liability to be a legit sub contractor.

WarriorWithWood · 09-15-2009, 07:21 PM

You're getting burned no if's and's or but's. Tell him to put you on the books NOW....then find another job ASAP. With guys like this it's not a matter of "if" ...it's a matter of "when". Been there done that and quit over it when it was supposed to be "under the table" then I recieved a 1099 for around 45k.

CCCo. · 09-15-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmaurice

He paid me by personal checks no stubs and he even gave me time and a hlaf over 40.

The personal checks won't really matter, if he is a sole-proprieter. His tax liability is all his own, really doesn't matter where he pulled the money from, just that he has proof that he did. I will call it poor business practice,....Thought you said he was a businessman..

im shocked you dont even need consent from the person to 1099 them.

No consent needed, He paid out you, You cashed em,...Simple enough for the IRS. Its happened to lots of us. You should be very careful with your S.S. # and only let those who you want to have it.

IMO opinion if you earned money you need to pay your taxes regardless whether is a W-2, or 1099. As a U.S. citizen it your duty.

if i tell the labor board the verbal agreement was it was to be under the table will that come back on me for even agreeing?

think theres anyway to get it on his taxes.

You earned your pay, its now your tax liability however its deducted. No way to put your income on him, unless he just doesn't 1099 at all, then you will get off. Someone has to be responsible in the end.

i dont even have liability to be a legit sub contractor.

If you don't care about working for him, contact his Insurance Company (if he has any). They will straighten him out real quick, but you probably won't have a job at all after that!

kubie · 09-15-2009, 08:16 PM

even if you get hurt and he 1099 you....you still are his employee. you use his tools, he tells you where to go, prolly tells you to start at 7am and can be done at 4pm. i dont think he is screwing you. he will be screwing himself when the layers get a hold of this. this guy is stupid. dont sign an independent contractor agreement either.

this happend to a contractor i know and a sub hurt his back on the job. kind of the same things he is doing for you with the checks, was deemed an employee and sued for workmans comp. lucky for the contractor, he didnt have to pay back taxes,wc, ss or all the other taxes.

trptman · 09-15-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemason21

tell him he can keep you off the books and 1099 but you want a raise to cover insurance. right now he's screwing you big time to benefit himself, and at your expense. thats my 2 cents. anyone else?

I'd agree. If he wants to make you responsible for your own taxes etc etc, then you need more money to cover that. It also depends on how bad you need the work because roofing is one of the more dangerous trades statistically speaking, I would bet. You don't want to be doing roofing without insurance for yourself and liability so I would get that in order asap. after you figure how much you made at the end of the month after deducting that months worth of "other expenses" that you are now picking up you need to decide if that figure is ok to you. if not-you should tell him he needs to come up with more money....or just put you on his books.
you don't need to be confrontational, but lay out why you need the extra money etc. if he balks, then start looking for other work. Maybe he can really only afford x dollars to pay you, and is not trying to hose you, but only you can answer if those x dollars are enough.

ampman · 09-15-2009, 08:42 PM

Red flag!!!!!!

Framer53 · 09-15-2009, 08:47 PM

If you are in NYS, he is commiting a felony nad I know the attorny generals office would like to be involved!

kubie · 09-15-2009, 08:50 PM

yup ask for more money. have ya looked at roofers ins yet?

get ready for a big shock!!!!!!!!!!

CCCo. · 09-15-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freemason21

tell him he can keep you off the books and 1099 but you want a raise to cover insurance. right now he's screwing you big time to benefit himself, and at your expense. thats my 2 cents. anyone else?

I agree with this too, BUT I wouldn't recommend it because of the cost of roofing insurance, Its freakin out-rageously HIGH. And probably just not going to even be affordable at all.

XanadooLTD · 09-15-2009, 08:57 PM

Not saying any of you would do this, but we have been down this road with subs also. We have asked for insurance and been given stories about they will get it to us..blah blah blah. Finally i said "I NEED THE F...ING INSURANCE INFO NOW." I was told that they guy didn't have the money to pay insurance and let it run out. Ok i said, maybe you are right. Ill give you a break. Then same crew says that they will work as subs for an agrred upon price. Ok i said GREAT. I pay him all is well. One day i get a "well im going to start needing more money because i have to apy these taxes after i get 1099'd." I flip and say well you agreed, but hey maybe times are tough. I give hime the new requested fees. I then get letters from IRS that info we sent does not match and that this person hasn't filed. again blah blah blah. So this works both ways about the 1099 issue. Did you sign a sub contractor agreement form is a better question?

bmaurice · 09-15-2009, 09:08 PM

no i sighned and filled out a w-2 form thats wat we agreed on and i kept waiting. i think i waited to long.
wat is considered outrageous for roofing insurance 1000 a year?

kubie · 09-15-2009, 09:12 PM

1000?/yr?

maybe 1/4 of a year. going by my ins agent

CCCo. · 09-15-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmaurice

no i sighned and filled out a w-2 form thats wat we agreed on and i kept waiting. i think i waited to long.

wat is considered outrageous for roofing insurance 1000 a year?

Lol, $1000 wouldn't even get it started.

It could be all over the board, and would solely depend on quanity of roofing done as well. But would probably be somwhere like $8,000-10,000 a year clear up over $20,000. Like I said how much roofing are you doing. I understand this as, alls your doing is roofing, soo it is all year no change. Big Money.

Don't Sweat the Petty Stuff, Pet the Sweaty Stuff

bmaurice · 09-15-2009, 09:21 PM

holy ****!

oldfrt · 09-15-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmaurice

no i sighned and filled out a w-2 form thats wat we agreed on and i kept waiting. i think i waited to long.
wat is considered outrageous for roofing insurance 1000 a year?

w-2 gives him your soc.so he can put it on the 1099 he plans on giving you.

kubie · 09-15-2009, 09:32 PM

goes by % of kind of work you do.

15% roofs, including building garages, additions, ect. gen liability may cost you 1600/yr. but you have to do other things....decks, trim work, drywall ect

and dont put "roofing" on your company name. i know contractors change from roofing/siding contractors to home improvements and save some money on ins

09-15-2009, 06:07 PM	#1
bmaurice View Profile bmaurice Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (91) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: framer/roofer Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: connecticut Posts: 91	I Need Serious Advice Ok, ill try not to ramble. i started working for this gentleman about a 2 months ago to be a roofing forman. he was looking to start a roofing crew from scratch. that was a first red flag for obvious reasons, but i rolled with it. first day of working i filled out a w-2 form. i stressed i did not want to be 1099, mainly because i was useing his ladders compressor etc, and i dont have any insurance. pay day comes and he explains he hasnt put me on the books yet. so he just writes me a check. 2 weak same story and on and on. now im only 23, i havnt bean in the bussiness for very long so i guess i trust people to much. so today i started a nice 12/12 pitch roof, and i told him a i need 25 brackets and 11 16' planks, he showed up with about 1/4 of that and told me to make due and gave me a deadline to finish that was real close even if i had everything i needed. so that made me start thinking that im going to get screwed not to mention he has no idea about the work itself hes just a buisenes man. so i called him and stressed that i needed to be on the books. and he said hes going to put me on the books next weak and all the previous weaks he wrote w-4's for, and i did some research and its pretty much the same thing as a 1099. so now im going to probably owe like 600 bucks in taxes. i dont even know how he 1099 me without my signiture or anyhting. not to mention i dont even have liability insurance. sorry for rambiling but any advice would be apreciated. i think i might be geting in over my head.

09-15-2009, 06:22 PM	#2
Aggie67 View Profile Aggie67 Structural Engineer Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (513) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Structural Engineer Trade: Mechanical, Structural Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 513	Re: I Need Serious Advice You're getting hosed. Call the state labor department. Better yet, tell the guy "I spoke to the state labor department yesterday, and they're sending me some info to help you get your paperwork in order. They said if you need help, that I should call them back and let them know and someone will come down and help you. They seemed pretty serious." Maybe that's a little extreme. But I would do that in a heartbeat. When we hire people, we give them a written offer letter on our letterhead with all the details, that they need to sign and give back to us. It may be too late for that (he'll more than likely screw you over at this point). In my opinion, this looks like a duck and is quacking like a duck. Treat it like a duck and call the labor department. __________________ Follow the day to day life of a professional engineer on Twitter Contractor New Jersey Licensed Structural Engineer

09-15-2009, 06:24 PM	#3
freemason21 View Profile freemason21 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (538) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: carpentry and painting Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: massachusetts Posts: 538	Re: I Need Serious Advice tell him he can keep you off the books and 1099 but you want a raise to cover insurance. right now he's screwing you big time to benefit himself, and at your expense. thats my 2 cents. anyone else?

09-15-2009, 06:50 PM	#4
CCCo. View Profile CCCo. Construction Connoissuer Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,705) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Construction Connoissuer Trade: Construction Remodeling - Renovations Repairs Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kirklin, IN "Proudly Serving Central Indiana Area" Posts: 1,705	Re: I Need Serious Advice A couple questions that come to mind. On these previous checks, did he withhold any of the amount for taxes or pay you all that was owed? If so then maybe he is either A. Going to screw you, or B. Really is planning on getting things in order. If the answer is no, No withholdings taken out, and you cashed the checks, Then of course he is going to 1099 to show where those payments went. He already has your S.S #, & Check stubs paid out to you! Trust me you don't need to sign anything, he just prints up the 1099 form and attaches your S.S # and your had, Simple. Legally he has to report it one way or another, and reporting them off to you is going to lower his tax liability. I will say one thing though, if you fall and kill yourself,..You'll be SOL Because you have no insurance, and you aren't on his books. Sooo, Be Careful __________________ Crow Contracting Company l Remodeling Contractor Indianapolis, IN l Indiana Remodeling Contractor Facebook l Facebook Reviews l Youtube l Merchant Circle l Contact Us

09-15-2009, 07:21 PM	#6
WarriorWithWood View Profile WarriorWithWood Tech Geek Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,431) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (2) View All Activity Tech Geek Trade: Property Management/Facilities Manager Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Feasterville, Pa. Posts: 1,431	Re: I Need Serious Advice You're getting burned no if's and's or but's. Tell him to put you on the books NOW....then find another job ASAP. With guys like this it's not a matter of "if" ...it's a matter of "when". Been there done that and quit over it when it was supposed to be "under the table" then I recieved a 1099 for around 45k. __________________ -Dennis www.bowmanch.com

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09-15-2009, 08:16 PM	#8
kubie View Profile kubie Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (265) Photos (0) Reviews (1) Projects (0) Toolbox (5) View All Activity Pro Trade: general contractor Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 265	Re: I Need Serious Advice even if you get hurt and he 1099 you....you still are his employee. you use his tools, he tells you where to go, prolly tells you to start at 7am and can be done at 4pm. i dont think he is screwing you. he will be screwing himself when the layers get a hold of this. this guy is stupid. dont sign an independent contractor agreement either. this happend to a contractor i know and a sub hurt his back on the job. kind of the same things he is doing for you with the checks, was deemed an employee and sued for workmans comp. lucky for the contractor, he didnt have to pay back taxes,wc, ss or all the other taxes.

09-15-2009, 08:42 PM	#10
ampman View Profile ampman ampman Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (778) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity ampman Trade: providing pathways for electrons and protons Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: central florida Posts: 778	Re: I Need Serious Advice Red flag!!!!!! __________________ an army of sheep lead by a lion will defeat an army of lions lead by a sheep

09-15-2009, 08:47 PM	#11
Framer53 View Profile Framer53 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,064) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Framing Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Utica,NY Posts: 2,064	Re: I Need Serious Advice If you are in NYS, he is commiting a felony nad I know the attorny generals office would like to be involved!

09-15-2009, 08:50 PM	#12
kubie View Profile kubie Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (265) Photos (0) Reviews (1) Projects (0) Toolbox (5) View All Activity Pro Trade: general contractor Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 265	Re: I Need Serious Advice yup ask for more money. have ya looked at roofers ins yet? get ready for a big shock!!!!!!!!!!

09-15-2009, 08:57 PM	#14
XanadooLTD View Profile XanadooLTD JumboJack for president! Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (747) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity JumboJack for president! Trade: Hilti walking billboard Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 747	Re: I Need Serious Advice Not saying any of you would do this, but we have been down this road with subs also. We have asked for insurance and been given stories about they will get it to us..blah blah blah. Finally i said "I NEED THE F...ING INSURANCE INFO NOW." I was told that they guy didn't have the money to pay insurance and let it run out. Ok i said, maybe you are right. Ill give you a break. Then same crew says that they will work as subs for an agrred upon price. Ok i said GREAT. I pay him all is well. One day i get a "well im going to start needing more money because i have to apy these taxes after i get 1099'd." I flip and say well you agreed, but hey maybe times are tough. I give hime the new requested fees. I then get letters from IRS that info we sent does not match and that this person hasn't filed. again blah blah blah. So this works both ways about the 1099 issue. Did you sign a sub contractor agreement form is a better question?

09-15-2009, 09:08 PM	#15
bmaurice View Profile bmaurice Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (91) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: framer/roofer Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: connecticut Posts: 91	Re: I Need Serious Advice no i sighned and filled out a w-2 form thats wat we agreed on and i kept waiting. i think i waited to long. wat is considered outrageous for roofing insurance 1000 a year?

09-15-2009, 09:12 PM	#16
kubie View Profile kubie Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (265) Photos (0) Reviews (1) Projects (0) Toolbox (5) View All Activity Pro Trade: general contractor Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 265	Re: I Need Serious Advice 1000?/yr? maybe 1/4 of a year. going by my ins agent

09-15-2009, 09:21 PM	#18
bmaurice View Profile bmaurice Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (91) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: framer/roofer Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: connecticut Posts: 91	Re: I Need Serious Advice holy ***! Last edited by bmaurice; 09-15-2009 at 09:26 PM.*

09-15-2009, 09:32 PM	#20
kubie View Profile kubie Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (265) Photos (0) Reviews (1) Projects (0) Toolbox (5) View All Activity Pro Trade: general contractor Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 265	Re: I Need Serious Advice goes by % of kind of work you do. 15% roofs, including building garages, additions, ect. gen liability may cost you 1600/yr. but you have to do other things....decks, trim work, drywall ect and dont put "roofing" on your company name. i know contractors change from roofing/siding contractors to home improvements and save some money on ins

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