Thewoodman

I am kinda feeling like crap right now. I went with my gut feeling and fired a customer.

I had bid a $4300.00 job and got it, but.... then they started firing away with question after question.the wanted copys of
1. My license,liabilty ins,workers comp.
2. My subs license, liability ins, workers comp.
3. A list of my suppliers and what supplies I would be buying down the the nail.
4. A list of three refernces.
5.Wanted me to do the whole job and the get full payment at the end. (I told them no way ,I gotta get some to start)

Now I know that the customer has every right to ask for number 1 thru 4 on my list And I do have the license,ins,worker comp... But too need all that info for a $4300 job.

Anyway I called to let them know I would not be taking the job, of course they asked why. So I told them the truth, that all the info that they requested for such a small job kinda scared me off of the job. He told me he was new at having work done and that "That is what it said to ask for in the internet research he had done".

I told him that I still did not feel comfortable doing the job, but thanks for the opportunity to bid it.

I really feel crappy now for letting them down. They may have been ok to work with, but I have ignored my gut feelings before and have had some real pita customers. so for once I am going to listen.

I still feel like crap though.

Mark

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Jerry Hill

That happens once in awhile. Sometimes things just don't feel right and you have to walk away. Actually they should have asked for that info up front instead of after you got the job.

dougchips

I love those how to hire guides, anyone can and does write them. I was reading one today in my local paper that came via AP. It said to hide your money and valuables, don't let the contractor use the refrig (bring a cooler)...............The best part was your are to ask the contractor if they have the proper license, insurance and ASK the contractor if he was ever sued. Not one mention of seeing the documents.

Everyone goes on the internet for lives questions, gamble if they find the correct answer.

Spectatorz

You Did The Right Thing !!!

Those questions should have been discussed before the contract was negotiated.

Trust Your Gut Feelings, More Often then Not, You Will Be Glad You Did.

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Mr. Wms

You're a smart man, I've done that a few times myself.

Ed the Roofer

About item # 3, I would have given them a generalized list for the basic quote, but not in detail with the prices to the penny. Then they would have chiseled you for every cent down the road.

About item # 5, I would have explained the necessity of trust placed upon both parties. Asking you or anyone to do the job for not "trust" compensation at the beginning would be the same as if you asked him for 100 % of the money in advance.

Maybe, a realistic compromise could have been offered, but for such a small job, its best to go with your gut. (Large jobs too.)

As far as all of the other items, maybe if you had already included them in your initial home enhancement proposal, he may not have been as concerned about the other items on the list. Realize that when he finally requested all of those items from you, you were batting 0 for 5 out of his suggested requirements.

Although the consumer advise articles can be over abused by the overly concerned home owner, the homeowners unpreparedness makes them feel even more vulnerable.

Try to avert this miscommunication with proper qualifying documentation in advance of your next victim, er I mean customer. They feel as if they are a victim though, if not properly educated by a qualified contractor.

Heck, my qualifying questionaire I am starting to submit should make most homeowners concerned about other contractors who do not meet the 50-60 standards. (I'll edit it down in about half prior to using it)

Ed

fci

Woodman, you should be happy. Why feel like crap when you did what I wish I had done when my gut said no to a big job but I did it any way and ended up in court. That was no party. The good news is that I won but had I followed my gut I would never have had to go to court.

AirPro

I have fired a GC for asking for #3, I include brand ,size ,etc in my bid in detail....but I will not list every single part or COST of that part.

My bid/ quote reads: supply and install complete air conditioning system to include all ductwork ,grills and controls to provide a fully functional HVAC system according to specifications provided including manual j,manual d, drawing and mechanical drawings m-1 through m-x provided by so and so engineer.

45% DUE AT PROPOSAL SIGNING: $XX,XXX
45% DUE AT EQUIPMENT DELIVERY $XX,XXX
10% DUE AT FINAL INSPECTION $XX,XXX


Kudos to you for not throwing yourself under the bus. They would have nickle and dimed you to death!

dirt diggler

yeah man... don't sweat it ...

joasis

Your customer would be entitled to have all the info, and about number the 3, the quality of what you are using, or brand, but nothing else. I keep a binder in my truck...past jobs, references, photos, copies of insurance, etc. and it helps sell the jobs anyway....the option of payment schedule is up to you, but a word to the wise, you need your materials covered....I refuse to have my money in another person's home or project...I can file liens for labor, but the materials come in 100% up front, or we don't even put the job on the schedule.

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Dave Mac

Im surprised you dont include all that stuff in every bid you give.

as far as the payment plan, that is totaly up to you and the way you do buisness and no customer should tell you how to run your buisness.
but seems funny you think its a small job and cant understand all the questions, but yet its a big enough job that you need money up front.

but its your company so do what you feel is right, and going with your gut is sometimes the best thing to do,

dave mac

john elliott

" A list of my suppliers and what supplies I would be buying down the the nail."

Do you supply that with every job you bid????

And where did it say that Woodman didn't understand the questions???????

John

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Ed the Roofer said "John too, in his crass and blunt demeanor.............."

LNG24

Not sure about other states, but in New York a contract needs to have money exchange hands in just about every case. In other words, until a payment is made, the contract is not valid EVEN WHEN SIGNED. It can be as low as a buck or what ever amount you want, but ALWAYS get a check with the signing of a contract. For me, I don't care how small a job is, if the customer isn't willing to put out money up front, they are not going to be parting with it easily at the end.

For the ocassions where I work by the hour, the customer must pick up the material themselves or pay me to go get it.

Second Look

Items 1,2 and 4 seem reasonable. #3 even seems over the top to me. #5 is a major red flag, and makes me wonder if he owns the house or is renting it

Your gut instincts are there to protect you and should be used. One caution to this approach is don't rely on gut instincts alone to arrive at a "yes" decision (like hiring an employee for instance). Always verify the facts when your gut is telling you "yes". When your gut is telling you "no", head for the door and ask questions later.

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rjordan392

The customer is right about 1 through 4 with the exception of detailing the price of all the materials.
I believe you were foolish in not presenting your estimate, type of materials, their quality and proof of insurance, etc at your presentation.
You just met a concerned customer who just wants to make sure he is covered and is going to get quality workmanship.
For instance: Did you tell him what type of hardware you will use for the decking; nails, screws or hidden fasteners?
You have to pry this and other information from the customer.
Did you show him pictures of your past work?
Find out what he wants first, and if it pass's code, then give the estimate and follow that with your proof of liability and workmans compensation and the subs insurance.
As for gut feelings, leave that to the customer; if you do a good job impressing the potential customer, chances are, he will feel a lot more comfortable working with you. Its all about "Presentation".

stacker

the internet is a great place...............but it can be hell for contractors.too many people want something done and they research how to do it on the net and then expect it to be done in the same manner.
i have been in masonry all my life,going on my dad's jobs when i was a little kid.my dad and i started a manufactured stone company in '78,where we made it and installed it.so i would say i know a little about this product after 29 years.but on a recent job the homeowner did research on the net,and i found out i didnt know how to lay it or handle it.she would come out every 15-30 mins and tell me to do it this way or that way.she wanted it this way and i finally told her i would do what ever it took to make her happy,but she was asking me to change the way i have laid this product for almost 30 years.she said thats they way the website for the stone said to do it.i did it her way,it took me 2 weeks to do a one week job,and it looks no different than the way it would have if i had done it my way.this job was a mix of ledgestone and field stone 75/25 mix.she had it down that i HAD to have 6 pieces of field in every 4ftx6ft section of wall.if i didnt get that 6th piece in i had to take out stone and put one in.
i was ready to walk before lunch the first day of laying stone at her house.but i didnt.

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TUPERCENT

I can understand your frustration that at the last minute the customer hit you with these things, but the one thing I disagree with you on is the "it's only a $4,300 little job attitude"

The problem with thinking like this is that your not understanding the customers fears. Many homeowners are not only concerned with losing the $4,300 (which isn't just parking change to some) but that damage in addition to that amount a bad contractor can do.

Every "how to hire a contractor guide" I have ever read tells customers to do exactly what this one asked of you. I understand the list of materials and prices was a bit much but I think this was the customer just misunderstanding the whole "get a detailed scope of work and materials" used on the project tip.

toddcla2002

I do believe #3 is a little over the top but that last one is unacceptable. But if you think about, for someone that has never hired a contractor before, quite often they will go online and do a search on "how to hire a contractor". You should do the same and read what some of these "legitimate sources" say in regards to hiring a contractor. For a lot of people that haven't hired many contractors this is all they know in regards to hiring a contractor. I see this quite often and explain (I always do 1,2, and 4 as my proposal) that a deposit is necessary to protect me and my contract. If you are able to explain to them that the internet is only oh so great and make them understand why this is necessary for your business then they may become your customers. If you are able to teach them this who knows...maybe they'll teach their friends about it that are new to hiring contractors?

I'd just prepare yourself to hear this on occasion and it's definitely something that you need to be prepared for or else this isn't the only sale that you would lose.

As to number three being able to approach that would be nice as well. I would probably tell them that I would be willing to detail this information out myself (figure out every nail, tube of caulk, primer, cleaning solutions) at a rate that's 1.5x my regular labor rate. So essentially I would charge them $200 to tell them I am going to my supplier to buy some things. Most people should balk and accept that you can buy your own gear and take care of the job.

~todd

dayexco

i feel 1-4 are not unreasonable requests at all. as a property owner, he's going to want to request lien waivers from those suppliers at the end of project so he doesn't get surprised if the contractor doesn't pay for his job material and the homeowner has already paid the contractor. i know of projects where contractor was paid in full, and property owner ended up going in and paying the suppliers for the job material to avoid having a lein placed on their property. i'm with the rest of the crowd on #5. materials should be paid for up front, progress payments for labor as it goes along, and final payment when owner has accepted the project.

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Dave Mac

said he doesnt understand why all the questions. and i certainly would tell them whear i was getting the materials for the job along with the type of materials i use, i always give brochure on the materials i use, it is one of my selling points.