HVAC, Roofers, Drywallers Please Take A Look

Patrick

Went to do a window estimate today and the older gentleman that owns the house asked me to look at his ceiling. Here are the pics. He has black discoloration of the drywall along what seems like every single ceiling joist. It is a ranch house. He did have a new ac unit installed in the attic 5 years ago. the actual holes in the ceiling in once pic are from the installers stepping through the ceiling. Where is the black coming from? He also has the same black discoloration on the wall above all of his hot air ducts. There is also REALLY dark discoloration where the walls that run parallel with the ceiling joists, meet the ceiling. One other note, his roof was replaced 5 years ago, and the shingles are racked every other course. The guy is an occational smoker.

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

Tom M

Maybe a clogged drain from the HVAC leaked in between the joist bays above? Or some kind of furnace roll out from an oiler burner maybe.

Patrick

Thanks Tom, The things is though EVERY room in the house has this. I would think if it was a leak it would be more localized and worse in a particular spot

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

Meetre

looks like smoke build-up to me. My father and step-mother have this happening in there house, both non-smokers. Step-mom likes candles, haven't painted in years, smoke collects and stains. Only thing i can think of that would be all over.

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millhouse

Looks like ghosting, or Brownian Motion to me.

This is from BuildingScience.Com - Full article can be found here, sorry, not allowed to link yet. Search for BSD-150 at Buildingscience.com


"The particles in the air next to the wall tend to "plate out" on colder surfaces. Since every stud is a "thermal bridge" the outlines of the studs can be sometimes seen due to the accumulation of tiny particles at the cold spots."

David

neolitic

Hard to tell with this crappy monitor,
but it kind of looks like some I've seen
when the vapor barrier is installed on
top of the attic insulation.

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Michaeljp86

I was thinking something along those lines. That area stays a little damp because of cold spots making fine dust or soot stick.

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Halo

My guess is from a lack of insulation and proper vapor barrier and an oversized AC system.

Ed the Roofer

Is there HVAC trunking in the attic?

Lots of air and humidity loss from those things.

It would most ikely condense on the lesser R-Value structural members, which are not as covered with insulation as the bays between the joists.

Ed

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WarnerConstInc.

its called thermal bridging, where all heavy metals form soot from furnace, candles, ciggerettes, etc collect on the cooler spots hence the framing members. sometimes hard to remedy. cut the candle burning, ceiling fans, properly vented exhaust fans. Sometimes you just cant make it stop though.

bob_cntrctr

Another vote for the thermal bridging - seen it many times in the old places I restore. I've even seen all the heads of the drywall screws blackened, making dotted lines down the walls.

However - for black soot to accumulate on these spots, there has to be soot in the air. If he has an old oil furnace, this may be pointing to a dangerous situation of back-draft from the furnace. If he has an old oil furnace, he should have it checked asap.

Once the dangerous possibility is checked and discounted, since the problem is cold ceiling joists, it may be corrected by over-insulating in the roof - literally cover the joists in insulation. Bet the tops of the joists are exposed right now. Save him $ on his heating bill too.

gregj

Yep, it's the candle soot condensing on the cold ceiling joists. I'm absolutely sure cause I've got the same thing. Wife likes to burn candles. And I see candles in your picture.

Roofsafe

I'm kinda big on ventilation, I did a roof last year that had the same thing on the ceilings. The HOs do not smoke nor did they have any candles, the heating is forced air, the cooling is swamp cooler.
On the outside there was soffet vents front and back, on the roof they had six box vents, before I even went in the house I asked the HO if there was dark lines on the ceiling, she said yes.
I believe the problem is caused by condensation, I got the job even though I was the highest bidder. I found that the soffet vents were 6X16 and had 2X4 inch holes for vents, the insulators plugged every bay between the rafters so what venting was there, wasn't. The home was hot in the summer and cold in the winter, the swamp cooler leaked in the winter.
I replaced the soffet vents with 8X16 and cut the vents 7X14.5 and opened the bays over the vents for airflow, I took all the box vents out and did a ridge vent full length, The swamp cooler was an easy fix with an insulated 'pillow' in the duct in the ceiling.
I did that home in the spring when it was still cool and she told me the house stayed warmer at night and their heating bill was less than the year before in the last two months of spring. I also did two more roofs for her neigbors.
I'm not saying thats the answer for the home in the above pics, but thats what I saw here several times. My two cents.