JamesNLA

Good God, I just spent an hour and a half tonight, and an hour last night at this.

How much time are you spending writing up jobs. Not like big massive jobs with plans, but just jobs under 2-3 day long?

send_it_all

I agonize over this sh*t. It takes me too long to estimate jobs too. I've done several bathrooms and kitchens, but I still cant just spit out a price. I price all materials for each job, guesstimate how long the job will take (worst case) and add in my o&p....but I still have to recheck it 10 times to make sure I'm not leaving something out....I don't enjoy estimating...at all. I'm getting better though...I can tell because I just lost my 1st bathroom remodel today because of price...lol.

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I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
I used the wrong method with the wrong technique

Chris Johnson

You guys need to find a 'Rule of Thumb' for your estimating, granted I do not do bathroom reno's as you described, I am a ICF contractor and on average estimates take me between 1 and 4 hours depending on the size of the project and my projects are dollar value higher than bathrooms mostly labour, this includes checking the engineers specs and full take off. I am sure others on this site must have rules of thumb for estimating reno projects

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Chris

send_it_all

I think the difference is that when I visit a customer who wants a bathroom or a kitchen remodel, I have never been handed a set of plans to bid from. The conversation usually goes something like:

customer:...."I want to remodel my bathroom/kitchen...how much will you charge"

me:...."do you have a drawing from a designer or a list of fixtures you want, or an idea of what cabinets, fixtures, flooring, you want,"

customer:...."would that help?"

me:...."ummmm, yes...a little"

customer:...."here is a kitchen on the cover of this magazine. Could you make my kitchen look like this?"

me:...."I certainly can"

customer:...."great!!!!....I have 10 thousand dollars to wor................where you going?"

Then we go from there.

__________________
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
I used the wrong method with the wrong technique

AtlanticWBConst

A small 2-3 day job:
I use a graph (excell like) that I created. It has lines for different phases, labor, materials, etc. I account for everything including gas. I have columns that break each of these areas into ''overage estimate'' and ''material mark up'', then '''totals''. Then a ''final'' pricing column. I total all these up, then re-check against actual days required/pay calculations.
For me, that graph puts it all in clarity and I am able to bang the estimates out in about 1 hour dependant on materials/parts telephone checks. Then, actually putting them in writing takes a little more time(another hour or so), as I want to pay attention to my ''printed legal-eze" wording. To put int all in writing, I use ''templates'' of all job estimates, that are in my business files on my computer. I can look up a similar job estimate and ''cut and paste''. Then go in and change around the particulars for the current job estimate. This also saves me alot of time from starting from 'scratch' each time I have to do an estimate.

I kid you not; I track all expenses, and I have been accurate down to almost the dollar on jobs in terms of expenses and profits, using the 'graph/ line-column' method I have.

(I have 9 larger estimates that I have to do, and this system will help me on the larger ones too)

- anyways, that's what works for me.
(FWIW- I also back up all my business files and records on another computor and Disc.)

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- Build Well -

Danahy

that's funny.

Chris Johnson

Hey S.I.A., I see your point, I feel for you guys, I certainly hope if when you arrive and there is no drawing/spec that you are charging a design fee, regardless to weather you get the project or not.

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Chris

Mike Finley

2-3 day job would take about 20 minutes. More normal jobs which are 3-4 weeks take about 3-4 hours.UGH! Way too long, but that's down from where it used to be, and will keep going down.

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Control your own destiny or someone else will!

RobertCDF

I use unit based pricing in excel. I have one that lumps materials and labor together that I can open in front of the customer as were talking. Then they can see in real time what upgrades will cost or what they can do to cut the cost. It took me a little bit of time but it seems to include just abour everything I can think of. It has sped my deck estimates up to about 5 mins ea. It takes longer to write the estimate than it does to come up with the number. I also reuse similar estimates and just change the info that I need to. This helps me to not forget stuff.

The way I have the excel setup is I start at the top with permits, piers, posts, beams, joists... Etc. This keeps me from forgeting something. Each thing is priced out differantly like joists are a QTY but beams are LF. The price includes all material, nails, hardware, labor, and overhead + profit.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
Colorado Custom Decks
Custom Composite Decks

dirt diggler

a two or three day job???

sheesh .... 10 minutes

Driftwood

No Time At All With Home Tech Cost Estimator

AtlanticWBConst

Never used a computer program estimater....and I never will.

I know some morons who decided that they wanted to become 'Contractors' and used a program to figure out all their estimates.
Result: they closed shop after about 1 year with a string of Irate customers (Doing minor remodeling and basement finishing)

How do I know: We started out doing some of their sub work, and ended being asked by both parties to take over the jobs and 'rescue' them from every job they did. (and listening to their clients compliments and also their complaints about them)

I reviewed some of their program estimates: PATHETIC...WAY OFF on real costs.
Right before they went under, they started trying to do addition estimates. They priced a $160K addition at $80K and took a deposit from the Homeowner.....(based on their little program)

Experience is your best friend.

Programs don't account for all the details involved.

Example on the moron's estimate: They didn't account for - Partial deck removal and rebuilding the area that was removed (footings, etc)-what program provides that info?

Actual property owner's preferences on windows and baths materials.
Cost of regular DAILY site clean up, as well as end of job clean up.
Actual flooring material preferences. Debris disposal costs.
Allowances, overages, detail work, additional site work....
Re-grading and drainage work required on the property,
Utility upgrades required to heat/cool/plumb and power the new ADDED living space....etc...etc....etc...

NOW: I am not saying that using computer estimating programs is wrong...or that you are a 'moron' if you use one. (the guys I wrote about - were morons for many other reasons)Obviously I have never used a cost estimate program. So I am actually the last person to comment on any comparison's of them vs. experience estimating. I don't mean to offend you guys that use them.....Just take my comments with a grain of salt....

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- Build Well -

Ed the Roofer

Measurements, including drive time = 1 hour to 1 1/2 hour

Calculations, = less than 1/2 hour

Pick phrases from Word Doc script, 1/4 hour

Format paragraphs and check for continuity, 1/4 hour

Proofread.

Appointment time, 1/2 to 1 1/2 hour

So, about 3 hours from start to finish, if I get them to agree on the first call, (which is not as frequently as it used to be, but I am working on it).

Average job length = 2 1/2 to 3 days.

Average job cost, = $ 8,112.00, from last years figures.

dougchips

We don't bid, never have and never will.

Contracts take between 10-20 minutes depending on the scope of the job. (6 page contract, fill in the blanks)

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To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

Mike Finley

A very simple Excel estimating program you put together yourself. It's as powerful and as detailed as you want to make it. You can make it count the individual screws you will need, if you want, it's up to you. If you can break a task down without a computer, you can break it down into your computer, and then you never have to break it down manually again.

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Control your own destiny or someone else will!

send_it_all

I use National Estimator to format my estimates and store the info, but I NEVER use the default costbook. I input all my own cost info in each estimate. The program takes the info and prints out a decent looking estimate with the h/o's info and my info...(company name, address, license #, etc.) I only use it for that function.

__________________
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
I used the wrong method with the wrong technique

Mud Master

Most of my proposals/bids take at least a week. But I am also bidding 100 or so shells and/or fit outs at a time. I need to get pricing on structural framing, light gauge framing, firestopping, C & H channels, drywall(normal,dent resistant,sound proof),mud, main/cross tees, acoustical products & accessories, etc..

Than I need to go over the plans, take a couple trips to the site,etc. Labor is easy because I know how much my men can pump out a day, and I have a superintendent to make sure they are pumping out what they should be, I know what my OH will be for that project, and profit depends on how large the pad site is. than I can put a formal proposal togeather.

Most jobs take 4-10 months depending on if all I am doing is the general shell, or the fit out(s) as well, which all depends on if the tenants want to use the GC that built the site, or a private contractor. I usually get at least 80%. So my proposal is for the shell, any fit outs are calculated later.

For residential..takes about 10 minutes. Take the SQFT of each room, calculate by a by board price, round up and done.

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masonking02

takes me awhile as well dont want to lave anythiong out that will bite me later

wackman

For the remodels: Like many here I built my own excel spread sheet. I line itemed everything that I can think of on different types of standard jobs such as 1. kitchen remodels 2. bath remodels 3. additions etc.. and then I go through and fill in everything based on my experience and MY historical data (that I need to update) then I have built into my spread sheet, formulas, that automatically calculate my drive time to the job everyday, material pick up time, clean up time, design time, a fudge factor, dump fees, OH and profit. All of which can be adjusted for that particular job if needed. My line items are broken down into labor, costs/fees and materials.

I'm usually surprised how much higher it is than I expected but I'm running around a 33% profit margin right now so I'm happy with how it's working. Most month long job bids take me about 3 hours right now and I'm working on systems to shorten them.

I like the idea about showing the HO the cost on the spot but I'd really have to refine my systems alot and I still need my sub costs which I'd be foolish to guesstimate. Most of my remods involve all the major trades and every job is unique.

New construction is all hard bid by my subs and historical data, especially with the interest payments on the construction loans, those can get out of control if you don't crunch your numbers right! Pessimistic, pessimistic, pessimistic! CYA!

Wack

Richard

about 1 1/2 hours

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Rich