How Do You Know When You're "done"?

KentWhitten

I was pondering this today. We were finishing up a remodel, had a few things to do, clean up the best you can and clear outa there.

And then came the question.

"So, we done?"

"yeah, we're done. Well, not DONE done, but we're done"

I know every one of you have heard that at some point in your time in the trades. So it begs the question, how do you come to the conclusion that you are finished?

I was thinking about this from other trades' points of views and I can see many different levels of complete from different trades.

For example, an electrician can clean it up pretty good (I would be assuming, maybe I'll be told differently) and say they are done, no gray area, no questions. You put the plates on, you hang the fixtures, etc. nothing I can see except maybe that screw isn't vertical on a switch plate.

But take drywall, painting, trim work, flooring, roofing....there always seems to be the gray area of what is acceptable, and what is "perfect", though you are never going to get there. So who's to decide what is done and what is DONE done?

Before you start in with "well, it should be listed in your contract" this is NOT what I am talking about. You sure can put something in there about being complete, but just as sure as you think you are covered, I am just as sure I can find an attorney who can find holes.

I'm not talking about CYA, I'm talking about how you decide when enough is enough? There are going to be flaws, I guarantee it. Do you gauge it by the level of pickiness on the part of the client? I would assume everyone here is going to have their own level of acceptance and I'm certain that this is where people start evaluating others quality of work and calling each other hacks. It's because their level of acceptance is not as high as yours.

But who actually sets this level? I'm sure you have done higher quality work one day and lower another and both were acceptable to you. So how did you decide that day? Or any day?

It's something to ponder.

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If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

OGStilts

I understand your point that everyone has good days and bad days but I think consistency is what differentiates great contractors from good contractors. The best way to achieve consistency in my opinion is to systemize everything and then implement those systems on every job and you will become very consistent. In turn, you will know when you are done.

ChainsawCharlie

You drop dead.

Mike Finley

In the case of where I am hiring a sub I set the levels.

He who writes the check sets the levels.

When a customer is writing me a check he sets the levels. When I am writing a check to a sub, I set the levels. When a sub is writing a check to his employee, the sub sets the levels for him. The employee gets to go home and kick the dog.

It's nothing as dubious as it sounds. Since we use the same subs over and over again after awhile they get to know my quirks and 'ass holededness' and I'm sure adjust their costs to cover it so they can do the job to the way we want it done and be happy too.

KentWhitten

That's an interesting perspective Mike.

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If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

Mike Finley

I don't know, I think the issue you have is more theoretical then anything. I mean we all work with each other and establish relationships with each other, so it's no different then a husband and wife, you get to know each other strengths and weaknesses after awhile. I have different subs in the same trades and none of them a identical in the way they work. Some are cleaner then others, some are faster then others some are more meticulous then others, everybody is an idividual person so everybody is different, but after a year of two of working together they know what drives me crazy and how to avoid it and I know what drives them crazy and know how to avoid it.

The level of pickiness as you put it is set by me, not the customer. We have standards to work to and they get met by us or the subs based on our standards not by how much we could get away with over a customer. Our standards are much higher than a customers as they should be in any profession. The customer really has no idea what the standards are because theirs stop at useability and ours are more focused on durability. The two are related but also completely different.

silvertree

Very good answer.

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Rick954

for me its when i can leave with 0 items on the 'i hope they dont see it' list.

also, if there is something that i think will move when it is touched, or break very soon, i'm not happy, and i need it done correctly before we are done.


sometimes just for your own peace of mind, its better to pull up those 2 tiles and cut new ones, or just go ahead and hit that whatever with some caulk real quick before someone asks why there is a small gap there.

WarnerConstInc.

When the HO writes me the check. It is different for every situation really.

Mellison

Great Question,
I always tell my customers that I am not happy until they are. It sounds cliche but it works. Not only does it reinforce the notion that our ultimate goal is to provide them with a product that they will be very satisfied with, it also makes it easy for them to point out something we may have missed. When the ball is in their court and they are happy you know you are done.
The real question is how do you tell your customer that you are done? I am talking about the type of customer who find faults only with the aid of a three hundred watt halogen. Or may notice an imperfection that can only be seen while bending over or kneeling on the ground. That is an entirely different animal all together. It has only happened a couple of times and we were able to quell the situation by explaining that no matter how much time we spend on any given project, if you look enough you will find something that is just a little off. In other words, as much as we try we are not perfect.
Mike

Magnettica

I'm done when the truck's warm and all the tools are loaded up.

Gus Dering

I can understand the who ever writes the check sets the standard point of view. In alot of cases thats true. But I see a bit of a hole.

If what you are all about is satisfying your own integrity and exceeding the expectations of the person that is writing the check, how do you stop when their standard is met?

I feel like I have to be the pickyest biatch of them all no matter where I am in the food chain or my goals are not going to be met.

Mike Finley

That's a great point and I think it illustrates the pitfall of not having your own standards to point to so that when you end up in that situation you have at least some reference to pull those customers back down to earth before things spiral so out of control you're screwed.

Believe me the goal is to leave only when they are completely satisfied, but if they raise the bar to an an realistic and unachievable height it might end up being so unrealistic that its' unattainable. When customers create expectations in thier minds that are out of the realm of a materials abilities that's not a good thing.

I ran into a customer like that in regard to her granite vanity tops. She was totally unrealistic in regard to grain patterns and veining and why did the fabricator do this or that. Anyone familiar with granite fab knows that the fabricator can only do so much when cutting out multiple pieces out of a single slab there are only so many combinations and so much square footage and unless a customer is willing to purchase a 2nd slab and throw away 80% of it just to have some sort of unrealistic outcome there is no choice in the matter.

A customer like that has raised the expectation bar so high through faulty expectations that the only way to fix it is to eat the costs of new materials. If you've followed the industry standards then you can eat the cost of redoing it if you want in the hopes of possibly making that customer happy or you can hold your ground knowing you did the job correctly and the customer's expectations are out of wack with reality.

That customer taught us to include an information / disclaimer explaining the grains, veins and unique flaws of granite are what makes it desirable in the first place and lets a customer know right up front that if their expectations are different then what granite is capable of it is not the right choice for them as the standards will never meet their expectations.

This has helped us, since then we had one customer who did switch to a manmade material like quartz due to reading this material and understanding that they had false expectations of granite.

Ed the Roofer

That is a very easy question actually, if "Done" is defined in the contract.

I am "Done" when my contractual obligations meet, "Substantial Completion" criteria, as defined and accepted legally and also as defined in my contract.

Firstly, in the Payment Schedule:

Final Payment, including extras shall be due on substantial completion of the work. Any account past due (and every 30 days thereafter) is subject to a 2% per month service charge. (24% annual rate)

Next, we define that in the general conditions page, which is the common legally accepted definition of that phrase:

Article 8) Customer Satisfaction – Presentation of the final walk through inspection report for customer satisfaction or the final invoice is notice to the Owner/Customer that the Company considers the project complete. Upon notice, the Owner is responsible to immediately make the final inspection and approve or disapprove the work by filling out the inspection report; or notify the Company in writing of any work considered incomplete or unsatisfactory. If no notice is received within one week, the project is considered completed and accepted by the Owner.

Article 9) Payments – Payments shall be made as provided in the agreement. The making and acceptance of the final payment shall constitute waiver of all claims by the Owner. Payment is due upon substantial completion of the work. If certain items of specified contractual work are incomplete, the cost of these items up to 5% of the original base contract amount, or a mutually agreed upon sum, may be withheld from the substantial completion payment at the Owners option until such items are complete or until the final walk through inspection has been approved. The work will be deemed substantially complete when the Contractor has completed all work called for in the contract documents and the work is ready to be used and occupied by the Owner, even though minor items may remain to be installed, finished, or corrected, provided such minor items do not have an appreciable effect on the Owner to utilize the work for its intended purpose.


Ed

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MALCO.New.York

Hey Mike....Do not let MAC see this!!!

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Something to One may be Nothing to another!

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rbsremodeling

I love this place

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Brock

I use very detailed contracts, so it is obvious to all involved.

WisePainter

When the homeowner cannot stand having me around any longer once the "meat" of the contract has been completed.
Punch out can be quick and painless, or the homeowner could be lonely and keep me around far longer than I am comfortable with.
As a painter I envy you other contractors that are long gone and have spent your checks before I even start, you don't have to be around when the homeowner is about to explode from having a million people in and out of their home.


Short answer: When I get in my van with the check in my pocket and I am 3 streets away.






EDIT: Great question! my current contract (4 friggin' months) is almost FINALLY over and I have been thinking about the end for a month now...

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Mike Finley

No sh*t! At least I don't pretend I'm not an asshole.

(please note - 3 smilies)

MALCO.New.York

I too, will admit it all day long. I TEND to be an a-hole. I am SMARTER than the average Bear. I will give you my opinion...Especially if I know it will be controversial......

But somehow, ya can not help but Love Me!!!

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE