How Do I Support This Fixture?

mdshunk

I've been thinking about this one for a couple of days. It's an electrical lighting fixture question, but it's a general question that almost anyone can have input on.

I ruffed in a 3 season porch a few weeks ago, and there were to be 3 evenly spaced ceiling boxes along the length for light fixtures. No plans, no spec on the electricals, as would be standard for such small additions. The ceiling was just going to be vinyl soffit material, so I left the boxes stick out accordingly, so that they are flush with the finish material.

Here's the puzzle; the builder has provided 4', 2-lamp wraparound fluorescent fixtures for each of these three locations. I'd have never guessed he'd want this type of light, so I never really bothered to ask. Trouble now it, the boxes I used are "bar boxes", which have a bar on the backside, effectively hanging the box between two ceiling joists. The fixture needs independently supported of the the box (screws, lags, etc.). The fixtures is to be oriented parallel to the direction of the joists, so I have absolutely nothing to screw into other than the vinyl soffit material. Anyone got any bright ideas? If I'd have known, I'd have put in some blocking during the ruff. The builder said to put in about 2 dozen screws into the soffit material for each fixture (joists on 16's), but I can't bring myself to do that just yet.

Your thoughts?

KillerToiletSpider

Have you considered Hilti Toggles?

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A flush is better than a full house.

firemike

First thought - 8" timber screws up to the roof deck.

Without seeing it, my first thought would be to pop the soffit apart and install blocking, or better yet have the builder do it ( yeah - like that's gonna happen )

Vinyl soffit usually comes apart rather easy using an unlocking tool, the same tool used for repairing vinyl siding. Sometimes a stiff putty knife or a painters 5-in-1 pushing the other direction helps seperate the seam.

Your right, it is an unusual lighting choice for a porch, but to each their own.

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-Mike-

troubleseeker

It may not be a pleasant idea, but the only thing I see is to unzip the soffit material to gain room to install some blocking. You can attach these long fixtures to the unsupported vinly with a million fasteners of any type, but it is merely going to pull the vinyl down to match the sag of the fixture. I also learned about unsuspected outdoor fixture selection this way, so now I install a set of blocks at about 15" from the ceiling box , which allows me to send a couple of screws up just snug enough to take the sag out of the ends of the fixture.

TempestV

no chance you could get the lights to hang under a rafter? Do the rafters run parallel to the lights, or perpendicular?

Magnettica

Yup!

Install blocking between the rafters and secure the fixture to the blockings.

Good luck getting that bar box out though.

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JasontheMason

Have any pictures?

Edsollen

For the record, it wasn't me.
Joel

mdshunk

No way to get the fixtures under a joists, and still have the fixture cover the box. The joists run parallel to the long dimension of the lights. I fully intend to leave the box above the fixture, and just put a bushing in the middle-most knockout of the fixture. This is legal, as the light is removable to access the box.

Looks like I might have to unzip some soffit to put in some blocks. It is good, high-quality soffit material, because there were some scraps laying about. It was the thickest vinyl soffit I've ever observed. I have the Malco siding tool, because I often have to unzip regular siding for various reasons. Never had to remove soffit before, though.

mdshunk

I know. You'd have had enough sense to realize what was going on, and would have put in some blocks before you hung the soffit. This guy didn't. I'm gonna start having to ask some questions for the 'next time'. The longer I live, the more questions I have to add to the standard batch of questions an electrician asks before he starts to do his work.

WNYcarpenter

Our subs would simply say I can't do this, call the GC to say he needed a carpenter to pull down soffit. We'd get blamed for not putting in blocking...

I sincerely appreciate your willing to fix the problem without pushing blame!

I agree, take the soffit down and do it how you would had you known.

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"I knew I lost my wallet as soon as I threw my pants over the fence". -'lil jarhead bro when asking for a wire transfer...

mdshunk

Well, I always blame people, but I go ahead an do whatever it takes anyhow.

Forry

What about a "bridge"? If the fixture rails will cover a large enough hole, you could cut a hole and slip a +/- 14 1/2" long 1x2 to land the weight near the joists... might keep the soffit from sagging...?

mickeyco

I'm thinking, although maybe a little too expensive, 2 expandable cross braces (ceiling fan style), turnbuckle style (or home made from cheap turnbuckles and some threaded rod), a rod coupler, some nuts and threaded rod.

Drawing that may help or confuse:

Attached Thumbnails

 

K2

I would do a 2-1/4 knockout and get two screws into the box and then whatever else you do into the soffit. What ever happens the box will probably stay.

Our master makes us knock out all fluorescents and expose the box. We argue but never win.

mdshunk

That might do the trick!

I used to do that, but it's pretty much a pointless effort. I quit doing so after a while. Some fixtures do have a box-sized knockout in the middle, which I use if it happens to have one. Otherwise, I just pop a bushing in the 1/2" knockout.

K2

I will admit that in a commercial building exposed boxes, (under the ballast cover) make it alot easier to peek in a bunch of boxes fast for troublshooting etc.

mdshunk

Yeah, I know. I might change my evil ways some day. Util then, I'll just continue to believe that none of my work will ever need troubleshooting.

thom

Screw the fixtures to a joist with a whip to the box and a cover on the box. Use one of those round covers that are oversized and it should work just fine.

Big Bob

1st I'd try to sell the right fixture for the application ( FIND A HOT DEAL AT YOUR SUPPLY HOUSE)

1X4 Std cheappy wrap arround ? does it have a low temp ballast for them cold PA nights? How about all them bugs in the summer ? And it won't be a lot of fun to clean it every year. By year two the edges of the fixture will start to rust. etc...

2nd If #1 won't fly, cut a channel 9" X 40" double check fixture width.
in the v-soffit ( enough room for you to install 2x4 blocking) the fixture will hold the cut v-soffit or add adhesive caulk v-soffit to fixture. (don't take the relighting project if you caulk and advise the builder the owner will be stuck with 1x4 fixtures forever.)

3rd. Murphy's Law... if you can't match it, or hide it, Flaunt it.
surface mount exposed (joist to joist) 1 by or what ever works appearance wise, mount fixture to this... A. sell the fixture will run cooler and provide extended ballast & lamp life.

let us know how you solve this one.