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HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction

 
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:28 PM   #101
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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ORLY?

Both of those licenses have an experience requirement, meaning that you cannot get them unless you work under a journeyman for a certain number of hours.

Both of those licenses allow you to make quite a good living running a one man show.

Stay untill you get the license especially if you are happy working for him.

Totally correct. I don't think you can get a masters license till there is like 7 years as a journeyman. So just getting a journey ticket will not allow a person to get a master's
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:33 PM   #102
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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You can get a job in Destin, FL at McDonalds for $10 an hour.
True enough, but construction offers quick advancement. In a couple of years, you can pick up a few skills and tools and be worth $15-$20
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:46 PM   #103
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


I didn't want to look through every post, but it don't look good out there. When you have young men who don't know to point a wheelbarrow in the direction of travel before they load, it ain't good. Secondly, when they load up with more than they can handle, then have to off load, again it ain't heartening.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:36 PM   #104
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


How about when they leave it ten paces away, facing the wrong way and and then start walk back and forth.

It's frustraiting, but, I love the look and reaction, when you say...
"They put that wheel on there for a reason."

They look at you with that blank stare, and after thinking about it for a few seconds, say...
"Oh."

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Old 08-17-2011, 12:53 AM   #105
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


It seems like anyone who is worth hiring goes out on their own in a very short time. The crew I worked on 6 years ago all have their own outfits now. We schedule each other in when needed. I tried hiring a few guys to help me on a few different jobs that I needed to complete in a short amount of time when none of my posse was available. I don't even want to go into it, I'm still traumatized. I can't believe that client still calls me.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:00 AM   #106
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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True enough, but construction offers quick advancement. In a couple of years, you can pick up a few skills and tools and be worth $15-$20
You can make 100K a year at Mickeys or any other FF by the time your 30 if you want. And its AC. I know young lady thats did it. Took her about 12 years.

Just have to have some drive.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:24 AM   #107
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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You can make 100K a year at Mickeys or any other FF by the time your 30 if you want. And its AC. I know young lady thats did it. Took her about 12 years.

Just have to have some drive.
Fast food? Yeah, if you're a regional manager for McDonalds, maybe.

As for the Mickeys thing, I've heard this from every waitress out there, how they make $500 a shift, bla bla bla. Her grandiose claims impress new people she meets, and gives her confidence. Then you work with them, and hear how much they complain about bad tippers, how dead it is, not making any money... 99% of them are talking about their best night ever, and most waitresses, even the best at the busiest places, make less than 40K a year. Those that make over 30K a year are actually fairly uncommon because you have to get the best shifts, you have to be sexy and flirtatious enough with the regulars, and you have to work a lot.

I'd bet $100 right now that the "young lady" is just talking herself up because being a waitress isn't a very glamorous or respected profession. As someone who waited tables for 2 years at 3 very nice establishments, I can say that there is so much bullsh*t being slung by how much money is made, it's not even funny.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:03 PM   #108
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


My point is if you want to work at it, there is money out there to be made. Not everybody wants to be the contractor. Not everyone wants to be self-employed. Employment is not a one-size-fits-all situation.

I worked in the oilfield for several years. But I didn't want offshore, I didn't want to be the tool pusher. I had went as far as I could without moving up.

I'm done contracting. I'm working for someone else after 25 years on my own. I'm tired of the headaches, the help and the homeowners. One reason is my wife became disabled, this way I can do what she needs without neglecting my livelihood.

We moved 900 miles into a house 1/2 the size. Our kids are out of college and we are downsizing. A guy will come along to take my place, one always does.
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:51 AM   #109
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


Just a note here from the OP I wanted to thank everyone for giving all of their input, a lot of you had some really interesting things to say. I had no idea this thread would have gotten that many replies.

I also liked alot of the guys who wrote back saying that it is also horrible contractors that threw off the market for a good balance of ambitious and intelligent young people to be in line for a position as a helper

Something about this business makes it extremely difficult for any standards to be regulated; perhaps that is why most folks do hire residential contractors upon recommendations only. Construction in America is the field with the highest number of self-employed people by far; therefore you never know who the hell you are hiring or you are going to be doing work for

There is no trade school that covers just the basic beginnings of remodeling, there is no way for kids who want to be helpers to prove that they know some light basics that they can at least do some menial tasks to get started out for apprenticing. Also, when a kid wants to apply as a helper, he never knows if he will be working for an arrogant low life or for some contractor hero that actually treats his help the right way

My first job as a helper was for a guy who would call me when I was on the way to his house in the morning and tell me that work was cancelled five minutes before it started, or tell me to turn around and go home so he could sleep for a few more hours. Half the time when I showed up at his house he would still be sleeping and I'd have to wake him up. We would drive around half the day doing errands and bull****, and then he would only pay me for the 5 hours we were actually at the customers house. He worked for a big handyman agency where he would get a phone call from the agency with an estimate, and then he would work as a sub and sell contracts bearing their name to the homeowner, after that the handyman agency would get a percentage (usually half). I wouldn't get paid until he got paid and the last check went in from the job. He didnt have the business name printed on his work truck, he would say that it was a waste of insurance money. He drove always the most dirt cheap work trucks that would break down, and there was always an excuse why we couldnt goto work one day or another. He almost never had steady work on a five day basis, and he would rent everything. I remember one day we couldnt work because the highway that had the rental place on it in which we used to rent the wall paper steamer was flooded, so therefore the job had to be put on hold. What a joke!!! And the sad part was, me and him were really tight friends, and he was actually a really skilled tradesman, he never got call backs on jobs, and always took pride in his jobs. He was just a typical moron who was a tradesman but was clueless about how to run a business....
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:27 AM   #110
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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When my grandpa starting in construction, he worked his butt off all day for $2/hour. Nowadays you can't seem to find good help for 3 to 4 times that much. Kids these days . . . . .



You are out of touch with the economic realities of the world today. $2 an hour?? What, in 1965? 4 times as much is only $8 an hour! You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:53 AM   #111
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


I think the message kids get in school today is go to college and work in white collar or you will be left behind as a failure. When these kids show up on the job site, they think they have failed before they even start.
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:56 AM   #112
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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I think the message kids get in school today is go to college and work in white collar or you will be left behind as a failure. When these kids show up on the job site, they think they have failed before they even start.

You can blame their teachers for that. The indoctrination starts early. They are victems of big education.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:59 PM   #113
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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I think the message kids get in school today is go to college and work in white collar or you will be left behind as a failure. When these kids show up on the job site, they think they have failed before they even start.
EXACTLY.

The other day I heard an advertisement on the radio for some community college, and it has the most condescending and elitist tagline: "Prepare yourself for a life of significance."

As if the people that actually make physical goods and perform real work in this world are simply some insignificant proletariat that can be cast aside as almost a vestigial remnant of societies past. The world can function without white collars, maybe not very efficiently, but it can function. The world cannot function without the blue collars.

One problem that's been arising too is that wages for white collar jobs are so attractive today compared to blue collar jobs, that the best and the brightest naturally will move towards those positions. Especially since they don't have to worry about things like cracking the screen of their iphone because they had to crawl 40 ft in a crawlspace that morning.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:04 PM   #114
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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You can blame their teachers for that. The indoctrination starts early. They are victems of big education.
I also agree with this. Education is a great thing, but academic education without possible application is simply trivia. If someone has a four year degree in "Women's Studies" or "World Religions", the sheer uselessness of that knowledge outside of a very select few fields, makes their education less valuable than someone who learned on the job for that last year as a carpenter's assistant.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:03 PM   #115
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


Excellent thread here with some great points and thoughts I've been following but haven't posted yet so here's my go at it

Remodeler is 100% right about white collar wages being very attractive to people in my generation, but I can tell you from first hand experience 90% of my friends coming out of college are not getting the jobs they want or the wages they need to survive. I know many people who have "resorted" back to retail, telecommunications, or even a trade. Except for my one friend who works for Hertz and is living the LIFE Free car, free gas, flexible schedule, benefits & good pay. 3.7 GPA UNH grad with a ton of community service, and a fraternity member.

Bottom line here is there are a ton of young people who do not have
the DRIVE or AMBITION to accomplish anything in their meaningless
lives. It frustrates the hell out of me that all these kids think it's ok to quit jobs, not show up, they feel entitled to everything and think everyone should bow at their feet. Nut up you need get what's yours

On the other hand, I just picked up an excellent helper. 20 yr Ex-landscaper.. this kid has mowed my parents lawn along with all the neighbors since he was 11. works like a bull. Pretty decent carpentry skills.

Miss Brown has it right.. most people who enter carpentry or a trade nowadays do it to eventually own their own company and work for themselves. I'm already on my own at 24.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:07 AM   #116
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


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I'm already on my own at 24.
With how much experience ???

Just wondering,
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:50 AM   #117
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


I grew up building cabinets in my garage with my grandfather, and going to his shop mostly every saturday. I have just about 7 serious years now.

I'm on my own, but I'm not doing anything big. I subcontract for an old boss of mine, install sheds and swingsets for Lowes, and I get calls for stuff like laminite floors, apartment turnovers, etc. It's not where I want to be per say, but at any point I could find a job if I wanted to.
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:38 AM   #118
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


I think some of you folks who complain of horrible helpers must be looking in the wrong places for quality help.

I will tell you straight out -----I have had my share of bad helpers in the past, but I have 2 excellent helpers currently

1)- my oldest son-graduated college in 2010. there are no jobs in his field-and in fact folks with 30 years experience in his college major are being canned right and left-so he has been working with me since May 2010- customers LOVE him, he looks a little like a hippy, he is 23, college graduate, a distance runner since age 11, into mountain biking/trail riding, rock climbing, camping,extremely well read and he has an artistic mindset- drawing, ceramics,sculpture, painting etc. his girlfriend is also an artist. He graduated from an expensive college with virtually no debt- largely by working like a dog as a landscaper in the summer 70 plus hours/week

2) family friend----------- this helper is the brother of another helper I had a couple years ago- i have known the family about 10 years-our families are quite close- in fact we just came back from sharing a house at the beach for a week or so

this helper-started work as soon as he was legally able to in highschool-and he has been working ever since. He also is a college graduate-with no jobs in his major( sound engineering)
he plays in 2 bands-and yes they get paid for that
he does some free-lance sound work for other bands
he works on the side for a company that contracts with my city to set up stage,lighting and sound work for their summer concert/ballet series( a different location each week)---------
and he also works sept. through may for a professional theater troupe doing the same
he has been working at least 2 shifts a week in a restraunt since he was 16-and yes the tips are THAT good he won't give it up- he gets 10% of the wait staff tips-and a typical shift gets him$100-$140( so guess what the wait staff gets)

Oh yes-and he works for me-and the customers LOVE him as well.
also- he has a bank account that would be the envy of a lot of folks 10 years older than him

my suggestion- if you want a good helper- look for an active young person with a variety of interests-a young person who is ACTIVELY pursuing their interests what ever they are----------- don't bother with a kid who has spent a lifetime playing video games and complaining how un-fair life is and how no one will give them a chance- look for kids making their OWN chances

almost every good helper I have had---- fit's this mold- they often come from white collar familiesand/or private school backgrounds- but they are often sort of free spirits and individual thinkers-who work like rented mules.

one of my neighbors is a 2nd generation landscape contractor- and he finds most of his best helpers the same way.
Best wishes,Stephen
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:20 AM   #119
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


So, you found 2 of them.. Huh. Problem solved for everyone.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:15 AM   #120
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Re: HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation Of Construction


no Leo- I WOULD'NT say problem solved for everyone

what I would say is we all might have better luck looking for GOOD helpers in non-traditional areas

in my case---- I would view a white collar job as---- well as soul killing a life as ever I could imagine. My father had an excellent-really excellent white collar career that looked like a long slow painfull death to me

guess what?-a lot of kids currently in white collar families-see the same thing- they know it ain't for them-even though society,parents and the current education system tells them it's their only choice.

Neither of these kids has missed a single day of work---although the one kid is consistently 10 minutes late each and every day. I have come around to viewing 10 minutes late as perfectly on time for HIM-after all at least twice a week he is working untill 2:30 at night the night before- but they are both there and on the ball every day.

they are both into it-and their backgrounds show them to be proven learners-so what more could I ask?

Best wishes, stephen

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