HO Delays Job Start, So He Can Take Off Of Work To Be There

Ed the Roofer

This has not happened very much in the past, but it has occured.

I always call the next home owner on the schedule when I am 1-2 days away from getting started on their job.

2 jobs ago, the HO stood on top of the roof and rejected the first brand new sheets of plywood, because there were knots in the wood, (Its not BCX, its CDX), and also because their were some sap stains on some of the other sheets.

After those, which we did not use on his house, everything was okay, but he still stood on the roof the entire time for 2 full work days in a row.

Now, I called my next scheduled customer and he finally got back to me this evening and we were supposed to start his job tomorrow.

Yes, he did mention that he would like to take some time off of work when we were doing the job, but he did not make it sound as if it were a mandatory condition before we could start.

He called this evening and told me that his wife insists that we can not start unless he is there, so there is at least a one day delay. (I guess another Wimpy Husband Thread?)

Would you go along with this?

Would you add some clause in the contract that the schedule must be in accordance to how they work out in order of customers who signed their contracts?

Would there be some sort of an additional fee for someone standing over your shoulder the entire time?

Ed

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Tscarborough

No non employees in the work area, end of story.

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Cole

Wow, and you didnt see these people coming did you?

I agree, insurance does not allow it. End of story.

Yes, I would add something to my contract stating it, (which I will do now, because I dont have it) and I would charge more if you could see this type of customer coming your way.

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wyoming 1

How about ok mr. smith but I will have to give your spot away and roll you back into the schedual probably somewhere around Oct 23

wyoming 1

By the way I dislike boneheaded homeowners He probably doesn't know which end of the nail goes down but he is going to be there to make sure you do it "right" and don't "cheat" him yeah right

kevjob

Danger Will Robinson Danger! WTF like he is going to know how to flash etc...

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Mike Finley

I don't see any reason to put any type of clause in a contract dictating you make the start date and only you. This doesn't really seem condusive to good business. The alternative might be a clause that just states something about work begins according to your own schedule and state that you, the homeowner is not required to be on site in order for you to do the work contractred, state that you will give up to a 48 hour notice and begin work as stated. An additional clause about delays caused by homeowner, homeowner's subs or anything else means start date is null and void and place in schedule is null and void and a new start date will be determined at next available position in your schedule (BOTTOM OF SCHEDULE).

With something like that a simple, no problem Hank, Okay I understand you want to be there, we will have to reschedule your job, I will give you a call in 4 months. Would have resulted in ole Hank changing his schedule to be there for your start.

I'd also be extremely freaked out about having a customer on the roof with your crew. One false move by your crew, one issue that would make them culpable if he falls off and you're toast. I can just see the guy sitting on your pile of shingles, falling off the roof and his lawyer suing you for how you stacked the shingles. Or the guy tripping over an air cord and falling off and suing you.

taper71

I dont know guys I see alot of crap that goes on in the construction Industry and even reading alot of threads here proves it . We as trades people have a less than reputable name because of all the hacks that have ruined it for the good honest men out there. Personally I would want to be there as well.

Ed the Roofer

Thats sort of the position I am in. I have had minor instances in the past, but they were easy enough to talk around and get it resolved.

This next guy stuck his head out for me to convince the wife to use my company, which was about 3 times the cost of another bid that I collected a copy of from him, so I have to give him some credit for wanting to have the job done the Right Way, instead of the cheap and wrong way.

Now that this has come up causing a delay, I want to consider some additional contract language for the boiler-plate conditions.

Delay due to HO.....Add one man for what ever amount of hours at the hourly rate, just to safety check on the guy.

Yes, I want to tell anyone they can not come up on the roof, but it is their roof. Maybe something to the effect of allowing 5 minutes per hour to check on progress on the actual roof and the remainder of the time, they must be on the ground observing the work in progress?

Per diem amount to compensate the companies lost profit for not being able to work that day. Also, what about the employees lost wages? Would that even be legal to have such a condition? I never checked into that scenario before.

If I wasn't so short on leads and people signing right now, I would put him to the back end of my schedule, but that would still be this week Thursday anyways as it stands.

I have a few good ones that should come through, like they always have in the past, but I don't count my chickens before they are hatched, errr... before the contract is signed and a deposit is tendered.

Ed

edit:
Didn't see the new batch of resposes. Good advice there, along the lines of what I was just typing.

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22rifle

Wow. HO on roof. I am trying to figure out how that works. I can think of no acceptable scenario that does not place the contractor at risk.

Hats off to you guys for dealing with this issue!

Mike Finley

The answer is always "Insurance." It maybe his roof, but you 'own' it while you are working on it. Remember the clause in the contract you signed mr customer that said that? Customers never agrue about those clauses during contract signing.

If he insists, tell him, if he goes up, your men come down. I don't care really what you tell him, I would never want the situation of a homeowner on a roof while I was liable for his safety. Never.


You want to play poker sometime? Your customers don't know every intimate detail of your companies schedule.

Michaeljp86

One reason his wife may want him around is either shes afraid of getting raped or she wants him around because he know something you may need, like what breaker to turn off or something like that.

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Ed the Roofer

I agree with both comments Mike.

I don't have such an insurance clause in my contract today, but I will by the end of the week after I research the proper phraseology a bit and tweek it.

I know that less than 1% read the clauses. Thats one of the reasons I have so many and get away with proper assertiveness, when push comes to shove.

No customer knows the details of my schedule or lack of one right now. I told him, after he wanted me to move him to the beginning of next week that I have a special order job that is coming in at the beginning of the week and we will be on that monstrosity for 2-3 weeks at least, weather permitting. That is when he said he will make sure he can get off of work on Thursday and Friday.

I will enforce the insurance regulation aspect on him though and tell him that he Must stay on the ground to observe and not be allowed to use my ladder if he thinks otherwise.

If everything goes well with a drive around appointment with a Doctors wife tomorrow, to check out some shingles she like on some McMansions, I will have a 9,800 square foot 12/12 roof tear-off lined up. I figure if she wants to pick colors, I may as well get her to commit in writing before we go driving around too.

That is the job I used the RenoWorks software on. Massive home. The detached garage is larger than most house roofs we do.

Ed

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Mike Finley

Isn't it funny how we can think we have our contracts pretty much done at some point? I had a nightmare customer a few months ago. I rewrote 3-4 clauses after that job, just because of her 'lessons' she 'taught' me.

Freaken never ends it seems.

Ed the Roofer

Your right. It's a never ending process of building, tweaking the language for both simplicity and acurrate legal correctness, but without seemingly slicing the customers balls off while you are handing them the pen and telling them to press hard, their are 2 copies that need to be written.

You can always tell how long a contractor has been in business and how many times they got beat up in the past, by the length of their general conditions clauses.

Size does matter.

Especially when you are covering your azz.

Ed

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Chris Johnson

Year - 1975 - Location - Any Mechanics Garage, USA

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OCRS

Tell him he's free to check out the roof at crew lunch or breaks. Other wise, due to insurance and your concern for his safety (your men move very fast and are used to working with each other, he's not) you cannot start. Have your guys line up at the curb with their arms crossed until he agrees.

neolitic

Better betcha I'd be there.
It might not be as sinister as some
would believe.
How many times have you discussed
and arranged a job with one guy,
start day a different guy shows up
and....he has a different take on
everything, hasn't gotten the details
from his boss(partner, whatever).
Suppliers deliver wrong material, but
the crew doesn't have this "little"
detail.
I know that isn't the case with Ed,
but the HO doesn't.
Better bet I'd bet there, just to make sure
we're all on the same page.
Up on the roof? Fat freakin' chance!

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joasis

I have a firm policy that is never broken. If the HO or whoever wants to go up on the roof, it will be when my guys leave. I have had the HO's want to be up there when I am measuring, and at this point, there is no liability on my part. If we take the job, then my policy takes over.

You are kind of out there on the start date.....tough call. I would do another roof first and let the HO know when you will be ready for him so he can be there. I bet he will decide it isn't that important.

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Rockhound

I wiped the dust and grease off of that sign MANY times when I worked at a service station(yes an actual service station)