Help With Response To Customer

bert0168

Not sure if this is where this post belongs but here goes...

This economy sucks!! I'm trying to bid competitively but it appears that the hacks may have moved in.

Bid a job yesterday to remove an existing 6' exterior slider that became an interior door during a previous addition (not by me). Customer wants it replaced with a 6' pocket door. Involves moving 2 floor registers, 2 switches and 1 outlet, framing a false wall, drywall, trim, etc and the 2 doors are french 15 lite. Wall is 8'6 x 16' long. Customer also wants the false wall as thin as possible and still have the pocket door operational so there is some jacking around with the kit and its installation.

I figure 4 - 5 days with drywall finishing. Materials alone are about $900. Quote the guy $3400 complete, meaning all demo material hauled, walk away ready for paint and stain. Here is his reply:


We were not going to have you do any of the woodwork.Also, the door can
be unfinished as were going to get it stained ourselves. How much of a
difference would that make in the price? Your figure was MUCH higher than
the three other bids which we received for the same job which they estimated
3 days of work. Kindly advise.


I have some ideas of how to respond (some good, some not so much).

How would you you guys suggest I reply or am I way off base with this quote?

__________________
www.ddcontractors.net

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

Aframe

Take a token amount off the price and see if they bite. If you were really much higher than 3 others why did come back to you. Probably just working you. Can't go much smaller than a 2x4 wall with pocket kits and drywall, any twist in the door and it will scrape the frame.

You may have to clarify that for a 6' pocket door (if that's what you meant) they are looking at a 12' opening in a bearing wall.


take $100 off for leaving out the woodwork, and charge them $300 When you have to go back because they nailed the trim to the door.

good luck

Frankawitz

I would come back at $5,000 and see what they say. they are scamers wanting the cheapest price, I would tell them here's how it's gonna go. they don't like it tell them have a nice day. if your the 4th guy bidding they want a deal a cheap deal, screw them they are wasting your time. Good luck

DavidC

It's too late to have your first visit over again, but if you could you should ask how they will choose the right contractor for this job. For me if their is answer best price I'll ask how they determine the best price. If it sounds like the only interest is the lowest price I'll bow out early. Sounds like a case where you should have backed out early.

Seeing as how you're there now you might try explaining how you have to call it as you see it to do it right and professionally. With everybody racing to the bottom it is easy to overlook something and the HO will pay in the end one way or another. Your best bet may be to diplomatically point that out to them.

Good Luck
Dave

__________________
www.CookContractingLLC.com

Darren@Partners

Maybe go to the RSMeans book (sold at Blowe's) and pull the unit price for painting, staining. Reduce price by that much, and show them the page from the book. Raisw your price per hour for the trip to adjust the doors when they hang them wrong.

dirt diggler

Actually, what you have here, is an excellent opportunity to become a better salesman.


It is incredibly rewarding (both financially and mentally) to sell a job based on value, rather than price.

Again, like I've said before (if you've read any of my business threads) - you must define the reason of why you are in business. The answer to this question will guide you, and line your journey with more success, less failure.



It's very difficult to sustain a small owner/operator business by selling on price. If you do this - and it's up to you - you'll be paying bills at best, and always always worrying about where that next job is going to come from.

It's hard to be a small business. You are not able to delegate time as effectively as larger companies are able to. You feel every PSI of stress. Whether from sales, production, administrative matters, etc. This takes time away from production - which is how you make money.

Sooo ... you essentially must charge more than a larger company. I could go on.



Not only that - but there are ALWAYS going to be guys that will want to literally work for free. They'll go in and tally up materials and add 5% to it and that's their price. Sure, they'll go under eventually --- but then a new one will take their place.





So this is why you can't expect to compete on price.


I HATE the word "competitive" (in context with pricing). "Competitive pricing" means that you're basing your numbers in comparison to everyone else. It's a recipe for failure --- or mediocre acheivement at best.



It's hard to do - to get out of that mindset. It feels like you're stepping off a cliff. And it is a leap of faith, of sorts.



So ...


1) Establish your own pricing. Stop being "competitive"
2) Sell on your value, not your pricing


I promise you, by following those two principles, you will begin to find out what separates successful businesses from struggling businesses.


I didn't go into nearly enough detail here - not enough time right now. And it may seem like it is off-topic, but it's not. This is an opportunity for you.

__________________
Thanks in advance!!!

Double-A

I don't think you're too far off with your quote unless you've missed something big on the HVAC portion of the job, but only you can tell, because you're the one that looked at the job. So trust your price and your experience. Now is not the time to start doubting your abilities.

As for a proper response, consider something along these lines.

Mr. Homeowner, I received your letter (phone call) with a bit of confusion and have been considering how to respond to your requests. On the surface, it seems you're having budget issues or perhaps time constraints that we haven't discussed.

I say this because in my experience, folks don't usually call back the highest priced contractor asking him to rework his proposal because they have found equal quality and value at a lower price, to be delivered in a shorter time frame. They just go with the better value.

What I mean is, you are calling me back, so there is obviously something here I'm doing right, but at the same time, you're asking me to not do some of the work we originally talked about. I'd be happy to address these concerns, but would like to discuss them with you directly, as opposed to causing unnecessary work by playing a guessing game with my proposal.

At this point, I get the feeling that the price and the time frame for the work are both greater than you expected, and I'm assuming that the reputation and professionalism of my company meets your expectations.

So, working from that stand point, the answer to your question is, 3,000 dollars and the time frame changes only slightly. You can only move a job of this nature along so fast given an 8 hour work day, so this reduces the time frame of the job by mere hours, given that the staining can be done concurrently with other work. We're only talking the difference in the time it takes to install the wooden trim pieces and the doors themselves on the tracks.

Mr Homeowner, I'm happy to earn your business, but you're going to have to consider coming to the point. What are you concerns here? Is the budget required for me to do this job falling short of my proposal or do you have a scheduling problem that would require me to come back at a later time to finish the trim work? Call me and let's arrange a time to meet and we can go over our options.


Bert, one other thing... I didn't see where you were addressing the flooring under this door. Since it is a pocket door, it usually shares the same flooring as one or both of the adjacent rooms instead of a threshold.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

macbuz

Seriously, I would tell them I forgot something and the price is now $5k. Thank them for contacting you and walk away.

Curious about a 6' pocket? Is that to say you will have a 12' opening? Around here, a 3' pocket requires a 6' opening.

Also, agreeing with the other post - you cannot get a thinner pocket install - would be a hack in any sense of the design.

Handymanservice

I don't think the economy is to blame for this. You have a customer that is willing to spend Money, they are just trying to adjust the scope. How busy are you right now? If you have a lot of work, stick to your price and "sell" your quality.

If you are slow and need the job, "sell" your quality and renegotiate the price, with the items they want removed.

How is this a bad thing? That is a good job and you stand to make good money. How much more upset would you have been if they just rejected your bid and went with someone else?

They are giving you a chance to get the job by reducing the scope of work while reducing the price, they are not asking you to reduce the price and still do the same job. They are looking for win-win and you need to be a professional and "sell" this job the way they need it sold to them.

Stop b!tching and go get the contract signed. You opened up with "this economy sucks" and you have a chance to improve your own economy and you are complaining about that. Do not listen to the people telling your to raise your price, listen to Digger and Double A, those are Professional responses. Now, go back and sell that job!!

__________________
"You can shear a sheep every year, but you can only skin him once!" Remember that when dealing with your customers and pricing.

http://www.yourhandymansite.com

floorinstall

I agree witn handyman. Very good advise

bert0168

Thanks for all the advice. Everyone here has given me something constructive to on one level or anther.

Double-A and dirt, exactly what I was looking for, some advice to give me a direction and some words to craft a response. I would like very much to win this job. My first reaction is to come back with a higher price and then walk away but I try to have a more cooler head than that.

Man wish I had that little gem Wed morning

I will apply this advice and keep you posted.
Thanks again

__________________
www.ddcontractors.net

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

dirt diggler

And this is where everyone f**ks up.


Look, it's nice to pay bills. But if that is all you're doing, as a business owner --- you're missing the purpose of having a business.


NOW, with that said - if you WANT to be a starving artist ... then by all means, low ball, haggle etc all you want.


You need to have a REASON for wanting a job.



Sell the job because it is part of the direction that your company is moving towards (which is hopefully "forward")



Guys wonder why things get so hard --- well, 9 out of 10 times, it's simply because they're not charging enough.


You, however, have given a price. I don't know if it's high or low. You have a gross profit of $2500 (approx.) built in for a weeks worth of work. That seems low. Nevertheless, these folks say it's high.


SO - this is your chance to sell a job as a high baller. You may fall flat on your face....

... but, I think, it's better then being on your knees trying to decide whether to spit or swallow

__________________
Thanks in advance!!!

jr_sanford

I'd tell them, "You get what you pay for." Do you REALLY need the work to stay afloat? Also, mention to them that you have references and photos of your previous jobs to show them the quality of work you do. Ask them if the low bidders can offer the same type of references. Don't sweat the small stuff, your reputation should speak for itself. The "fly by nighters" will soon burn out and you'll still be there to mend their ways.

J.R.

ClosetPro

My price never goes down unless something is removed from the job, makes it look like you were trying to rip them off the first time.

marc

They told you they have 3 other bids that are lower than yours.
THAT is a huge buying signal. If they didn't want you they would have just said that they hired someone else or that your number seems ok but they need to think about it.
I would call them back and say that you may be able to lower the price but just so that everyone is on the same page and you want to give them an apples for apples price you would like to come by and they can show you the other bids. Promise them in advance that if the other guy is bidding the same project as you but for a much lower price (and they think they can trust the other guy) that you will advise them to hire the other guy but you may also show them that the other guys missed something or that they are not doing it to manufacturers specifications.
If they really do have lower prices (and I personaly don't think that's the case) and they want to hire you they will invite you back. If they don't they either never liked you or you caught them in a lie and now they are too embarassed to admit it.................Have fun with it and in the future ALWAYS present your price in person with all decission makers present and ask for the order at least 5 times before leaving.

__________________
Marc

carolinahandyma

They want you for the job, otherwise they would not have contacted you. They simply want to negotiate price with you. A lot of homeowners are trying to negotiate.

Call them on the phone, clarify the scope of work they want to reduce, tell them you revise your estimate and get it right over to them. As far as time-frame tell them you would rather do a quality job and have enough time to do it.

bert0168

I see your point and maybe "win" was the wrong term.

What I was trying to say was that I want to be able to stick to my guns with the price by trying to become a better salesman.

I have learned much as a member here and am applying a little every day to better my business skills.

I used to be the guy who would lower my initial price when a potential customer balked. Made me feel like s@%t. I don't do it anymore because of what I learned here. My price is my price.

I am now trying to learn how to "sell" what I feel my business stands for--Quality. I think that was what I was really looking for advice on. I know it was posted here numerous times before but now I had a situation I recognized and wasn't sure how to react.

In fact I am writing the response now.

I am not pizzed, I actually appreciate all the comments, it's given me some level of confidence to respond properly so thanks again.

__________________
www.ddcontractors.net

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

bert0168

Here is what I sent. Thanks for all the help and input.

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly with your concerns. I am a bit confused as to what portions of the scope you were looking to adjust. Not having discussed a budget with you during our initial visit, I am feeling that your concerns are either budgetary or with the time necessary to complete the work, and not related to the level of quality in the finished product.

It has been my experience that potential customers who are looking for price only and aren't concerned with quality, usually don't give us a second look and make their decisions based on the price alone. What I am getting at is that you have obviously seen the level of quality we put into our product and were impressed enough to contact us initially to quote your project as well as trying now to work with us through the proposal process.

I had not included staining or painting as part of the proposal. By stain grade I was referring to the higher quality of the trim used to make the door jambs and casings which has minimal knots and no finger joining. In regards to the woodwork portion, I am not sure what exactly you are referring to. For me that includes all the trim work (jambs, casing, baseboards) required to complete the project.

That being said, I will try to answer your questions. If I forgo the woodwork as I stated, I can adjust my estimate to $***x which is a difference of $***. Again, staining wasn't included in the initial estimate. The time frame would only change slightly. Certain aspects of this project can only be moved along so fast. Please also keep in mind that I have estimated special circumstances, with regards to the pocket door hardware, to maintain as narrow a thickness as possible, which I know to be one of your concerns. It won't be a standard installation.

Mike, I am happy to earn your business but if what I stated above isn't correct, I need to know exactly what your concerns are. Is the budget you set aside less than you expected you would need or is it the 4-5 day schedule? I would be happy to discuss any aspect of my estimate. If you would like, we can compare apples to apples with any of the other estimates you received. If another bid is truly equal in scope and you trust that company, then I would certainly advise you to go with the other company.

Please contact me either by e-mail or phone so that we can discuss what options are available for this project. Again, thank you for replying with your concerns and I look forward to hearing from you.

Dave


It has a little bit of everything in it. We'll see.....

__________________
www.ddcontractors.net

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.

macbuz

If it were me .... there's no way I'd lower my price. If I give a number, it is either 'good' or it is 'low' because I left something out.

Show a job to three guys and then quiz them about what they saw. See how different each will see the job. Those lower numbers are likely because they 'see' the job differently. Who is 'seeing' it right is anyone's guess, but your numbers are for how you see it - stick to them or raise them because you found something you overlooked.

Even a simple straight forward job such as this, in the end, can be done a variety of ways, each costing a little different. If a customer comes back to me with lower numbers .... this exactly where I go. Just before I head for the door.

marc

I guess if you're lucky he will actually jamb a pen through the phone or the computer and sign your agreement.

__________________
Marc