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Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC

 
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:50 PM   #41
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


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Originally Posted by svankirk View Post
Hi folks,

I started a handyman business a few years ago. I wanted to do things "by the book" so I asked the WA state Dept. of Labor & Industries whether a licensed general contractor operating a handyman business was allowed to do small plumbing and electrical tasks - for example, replacing a light fixture or

switch, installing a garbage disposal, replacing a toilet or tub/sink fixture, etc. I was basically given a firm "no".

Since then I've toed the line, but it's kind of frustrating. Based on what I see people advertise on their websites, I have a feeling that this kind of work is routinely performed by GC's and handyman-type folks - unless they all just happen to be licensed as both plumbers and electricians. Which is doubtful.

And what about the big-box stores? Are the installation services they offer licensed? In other words, if I buy a garbage disposal at Lowe's or Home Depot and pay $99 or whatever to have them install it, are they going to send both a licensed plumber and a licensed electrician to complete the job - after all, it may involve both plumbing and electrical work? I doubt it very much.

My guess is that most contractors would find it ridiculous that a competent, professional handyman isn't allowed by law to do such things.

Anyway, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here and I don't want to take work away from licensed tradespeople. It's just that they are often busy doing larger plumbing and electrical jobs, and rightfully so. But then the homeowner who just wants a dimmer switch is sort of up a creek.

So I guess I'll ask a couple questions:
1. What is your opinion on the matter? Am I the only one who feels this way?
2. Do you perform minor stuff like this despite not being a licensed plumber or electrician? (I realize the risk involved in answering, and I won't fault anyone for remaining silent.)

I know this is probably a touchy subject, but I'm very interested to hear the opinions of anyone willing to share. I respect your input and I'm looking to understand what really goes on out there.

Thanks in advance - I really appreciate it.

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
My opinion from years of experience is that a license is only required by law when you are running pipe and wires in walls.
I am certified in electric repair as a hvac tech and company owner. We can only pull electric six foot from the the wall. Where the electrician ran the power. We can change any fixture plumbing or electric. We can repair a damaged pipe or wire but we cant run anything behind a wall.
A maintenance guy can also do the same task. Which every hospital has jr techs in plumbing and who are not licensed doing this vary thing you are talking about without a license.
To make a long story short you can change fixtures in both plumbing and electric you should be fine. Just dont run anything behind a wall. Cause if anyone want to inspect. Then no walls or flooring will ever. Have to be tore out.
This is my opinion how it works in every state think about it who changes a broken light switch in apartment complex. A maintenance guy not a electrian.
My opinion who ever told you that ask them to see the law. Sounds like b.s long as you follow what i am saying you should be straight.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:54 PM   #42
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


It's pretty clear in this state, only electricians or HOs can install or uninstall, including devices.
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:04 AM   #43
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


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Her in CA which is one of the most regulated states, you would likely have no problem doing any kind of electrical or plumbing work, as almost all GC's here do. I think your worry is that you are legitimate, with a GC license, so you can see that you have more to lose if you do some gray area work.



That is the problem. If you don't have a license, insurance, legal employees, and so forth, what do you care if someone complains or you get caught. So what? Can't squeeze blood out of turnip. Considering the 1 out of 10,000 cases that may go to court here, the defendant simply pleads poverty and any fines are dismissed, if not the whole case.



I am glad you are playing by the book, but in reality, most don't. Especially in residential, nobody here cares, not even the inspectors. As long as you got a GC, you can do all the electrical and plumbing you want. In fact , I have been on several permitted jobs and I ask the GC, who's doing the electrical and plumbing ? He goes, "I am".


It's perfectly legal for a licensed GC to perform electrical and plumbing in house, here in Cali. In fact I can do anything I want but well drilling and fire sprinklers.


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Old 02-23-2018, 06:08 AM   #44
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


In Florida you can't change a counter top without a permit and a licensed plumber to install the sink. I don't know if they are protecting jobs, homeowners, or their own wallets. I would like to think that too many hacks screwed to many home owners and they put a stop to it.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:30 AM   #45
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


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It's perfectly legal for a licensed GC to perform electrical and plumbing in house, here in Cali. In fact I can do anything I want but well drilling and fire sprinklers.


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In Oregon, a GC can't hook up irrigation supply side.

But the dirt flingers can do plumbing?


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Old 02-23-2018, 10:52 AM   #46
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


Ny may be mostly socialist but redid just about my entire house with no permits needed. Don't even need a license for anything in my county. 15 miles up the road it's a different story.


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Old 02-23-2018, 11:51 AM   #47
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


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In Oregon, a GC can't hook up irrigation supply side.

But the dirt flingers can do plumbing?


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Fire sprinklers are within the fire marshals jurisdiction.


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Old 02-23-2018, 11:54 AM   #48
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


The problem here is you call ten guys you'll get eleven answers.
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Old 02-24-2018, 02:26 AM   #49
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


A lot depends on the objective of the state (ie elected representatives etc). A unionized govt entity will try to protect the unions by writing laws requiring trade issue with license check when pulling permits.

Here in Tx, they are interested in protecting the common shared by the populace and the safety of the property owner. Electrical and plumbing permits can be pulled by anyone in most counties, but the inspector will be picking of you don't have a license. But, the inspectors are only nosy for major items like water heaters, hvac, roofs and remodels.

When connecting into public water systems, they do get antsy on things like below backflow devices (irrigation) and such, but once downstream of the city connection, it's usually up to the homeowner.

Also, any homeowner can pull their own permits and do the work themselves (in most govt entities here)

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Old 02-27-2018, 12:46 PM   #50
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


Around here it depends on the inspector. One will say a GC can set toilets and sinks, wire switches and outlets, and the next might say no! I always use suds on large jobs. I never pulled a permit on small repairs. If it's real small, all do it for free, and tell them when their ready to gut that bathroom, give me a call! Other times all say " you can legally do this your self, and if anyone ask,.. YOU DID!" saved'em on this job, hooked'em on the next.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:51 AM   #51
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


Quote:
Originally Posted by svankirk View Post
Hi folks,

I started a handyman business a few years ago. I wanted to do things "by the book" so I asked the WA state Dept. of Labor & Industries whether a licensed general contractor operating a handyman business was allowed to do small plumbing and electrical tasks - for example, replacing a light fixture or switch, installing a garbage disposal, replacing a toilet or tub/sink fixture, etc. I was basically given a firm "no".

Since then I've toed the line, but it's kind of frustrating. Based on what I see people advertise on their websites, I have a feeling that this kind of work is routinely performed by GC's and handyman-type folks - unless they all just happen to be licensed as both plumbers and electricians. Which is doubtful.

And what about the big-box stores? Are the installation services they offer licensed? In other words, if I buy a garbage disposal at Lowe's or Home Depot and pay $99 or whatever to have them install it, are they going to send both a licensed plumber and a licensed electrician to complete the job - after all, it may involve both plumbing and electrical work? I doubt it very much.

My guess is that most contractors would find it ridiculous that a competent, professional handyman isn't allowed by law to do such things.

Anyway, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here and I don't want to take work away from licensed tradespeople. It's just that they are often busy doing larger plumbing and electrical jobs, and rightfully so. But then the homeowner who just wants a dimmer switch is sort of up a creek.

So I guess I'll ask a couple questions:
1. What is your opinion on the matter? Am I the only one who feels this way?
2. Do you perform minor stuff like this despite not being a licensed plumber or electrician? (I realize the risk involved in answering, and I won't fault anyone for remaining silent.)

I know this is probably a touchy subject, but I'm very interested to hear the opinions of anyone willing to share. I respect your input and I'm looking to understand what really goes on out there.

Thanks in advance - I really appreciate it.

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces
i think the laws are bit ridiculous for us GC's. a lot of the laws are in place due to the shady people of the business screwing over the public consumer. they gave us a bad name and now we suffer for it... having a GC license, legally allows you to perform every single trade (outside fire\life saftey, and i think well drilling?). BUT you cant take any contract for any trade unless your performing 2+ different, non related trades at the same time, excluding carpentry. at least thats how it is in california. if im competent enough to plumb, wire, and install HVAC in house, how am i not qualified to install a new sink\garbage disposal? before my business grew and my back ripped in half i worked as a handyman\ GC and ran circles around the other trades, my work was far superior and i charged a premium for it and did very well. apparently it was all illegal tho.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:54 AM   #52
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


Hi folks,

Circling back to this topic.

FWIW, I made the decision to continue turning down all plumbing & electrical work. I refer folks to licensed plumbers/electricians that I've used in my own home, and they appreciate the confidence in knowing that. It's been working out well thus far. I even post it on my website under "Handyman services we don't offer." This saves time for both me and my customers.

The reason I'm circling back is that I found something interesting this morning. It seems to answer the question of "Who is legally allowed to replace a garbage disposal or similar appliance involving both plumbing & electrical?" (For WA state, anyways.)

The short answer seems to be, "A licensed plumber or electrician, BUT only if it's a replacement (as opposed to a new install), and a permit may be applicable."

Boldface emphasis is mine.

Here's where it says a licensed plumber can do minor electrical (my paraphrase):
RCW 19.28.091
Licensing—Exemptions.

(8) An entity that currently holds a valid specialty or general plumbing contractor's registration under chapter 18.27 RCW may employ a certified plumber, a certified residential plumber, or a plumber trainee meeting the requirements of chapter 18.106 RCW to perform electrical work that is incidentally, directly, and immediately appropriate to the like-in-kind replacement of a household appliance or other small household utilization equipment that requires limited electric power and limited waste and/or water connections. A plumber trainee must be supervised by a certified plumber or a certified residential plumber while performing electrical work. The electrical work is subject to the permitting and inspection requirements of this chapter. Found something interesting in WA state law just now.
And here's where it says a licensed electrician can do minor plumbing (my paraphrase):
RCW 18.27.090
Exemptions.
The registration provisions of this chapter do not apply to:

(18) An entity who holds a valid electrical contractor's license under chapter 19.28 RCW that employs a certified journey level electrician, a certified residential specialty electrician, or an electrical trainee meeting the requirements of chapter 19.28 RCW to perform plumbing work that is incidentally, directly, and immediately appropriate to the like-in-kind replacement of a household appliance or other small household utilization equipment that requires limited electric power and limited waste and/or water connections. An electrical trainee must be supervised by a certified electrician while performing plumbing work.
BTW, the reason I was researching the laws (again) is because a customer called yesterday asking if I could replace 2 shower heads. I basically told her, "No, I'm not legally allowed to, but let me check the wording of the laws to see if anything has changed." So yes, in about 15 minutes I'm going to call & turn away some of the easiest work out there. Grrrr....


Thanks,

Steve
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:04 PM   #53
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


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Originally Posted by B.Johnson View Post
In Florida you can't change a counter top without a permit and a licensed plumber to install the sink. I don't know if they are protecting jobs, homeowners, or their own wallets. I would like to think that too many hacks screwed to many home owners and they put a stop to it.
we do small electrical and plumbing all the times.
but if we pull a permit ,on that project , we cannot install a simple faucet , or light switch .
even need to call an a/c/ company to change the exhaust fan in a bathroom , even though there was one there , and everything is ready to go.
went in a condo building in south miami beach last month
told him i was going to disconnect the sink and install one exactly the same size
thatsjust disconnecting the 2 supply lines from a shut-off valves,
they said no we couldn't` do ,
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Old 06-22-2018, 02:53 PM   #54
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
It's perfectly legal for a licensed GC to perform electrical and plumbing in house, here in Cali. In fact I can do anything I want but well drilling and fire sprinklers.


Mike.
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Wait a minute here, it is my understanding that a GC can perform carpentry only on his B license or contract to do a remodel, addition or ground up construction and perform any of the trades as long as he has at least two other trades on the permit. Be they electrical license or plumbing or HVAC or any of the other C category trades.

I found it on the CSLB website:

A general building contractor may take a prime contract or a subcontract for a framing
or carpentry project. However, a general building contractor shall not take a prime
contract for any project involving trades other than framing or carpentry unless the
prime contract requires at least two unrelated building trades or crafts other than
framing or carpentry, or unless the general building contractor holds the appropriate
license classification or subcontracts with an appropriately licensed contractor to
perform the work. A general building contractor shall not take a subcontract involving
trades other than framing or carpentry, unless the subcontract requires at least two
unrelated trades or crafts other than framing or carpentry, or unless the general
building contractor holds the appropriate license classification. The general building
contractor may not count framing or carpentry in calculating the two unrelated trades
necessary in order for the general building contractor to be able to take a prime
contract or subcontract for a project involving other trades.

Andy.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:32 PM   #55
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Wait a minute here, it is my understanding that a GC can perform carpentry only on his B license or contract to do a remodel, addition or ground up construction and perform any of the trades as long as he has at least two other trades on the permit. Be they electrical license or plumbing or HVAC or any of the other C category trades.



I found it on the CSLB website:



A general building contractor may take a prime contract or a subcontract for a framing

or carpentry project. However, a general building contractor shall not take a prime

contract for any project involving trades other than framing or carpentry unless the

prime contract requires at least two unrelated building trades or crafts other than

framing or carpentry, or unless the general building contractor holds the appropriate

license classification or subcontracts with an appropriately licensed contractor to

perform the work. A general building contractor shall not take a subcontract involving

trades other than framing or carpentry, unless the subcontract requires at least two

unrelated trades or crafts other than framing or carpentry, or unless the general

building contractor holds the appropriate license classification. The general building

contractor may not count framing or carpentry in calculating the two unrelated trades

necessary in order for the general building contractor to be able to take a prime

contract or subcontract for a project involving other trades.



Andy.


Exactly if I do the carpentry I can do the electrical and plumbing. That's two other trades.


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Old 06-22-2018, 09:33 PM   #56
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Wait a minute here, it is my understanding that a GC can perform carpentry only on his B license or contract to do a remodel, addition or ground up construction and perform any of the trades as long as he has at least two other trades on the permit. Be they electrical license or plumbing or HVAC or any of the other C category trades.



I found it on the CSLB website:



A general building contractor may take a prime contract or a subcontract for a framing

or carpentry project. However, a general building contractor shall not take a prime

contract for any project involving trades other than framing or carpentry unless the

prime contract requires at least two unrelated building trades or crafts other than

framing or carpentry, or unless the general building contractor holds the appropriate

license classification or subcontracts with an appropriately licensed contractor to

perform the work. A general building contractor shall not take a subcontract involving

trades other than framing or carpentry, unless the subcontract requires at least two

unrelated trades or crafts other than framing or carpentry, or unless the general

building contractor holds the appropriate license classification. The general building

contractor may not count framing or carpentry in calculating the two unrelated trades

necessary in order for the general building contractor to be able to take a prime

contract or subcontract for a project involving other trades.



Andy.


Has nothing to do with the permit. There's some plumbing that doesn't need a permit.


Mike.
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Last edited by Californiadecks; 06-22-2018 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:36 PM   #57
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Wait a minute here, it is my understanding that a GC can perform carpentry only on his B license or contract to do a remodel, addition or ground up construction and perform any of the trades as long as he has at least two other trades on the permit. Be they electrical license or plumbing or HVAC or any of the other C category trades.



I found it on the CSLB website:



A general building contractor may take a prime contract or a subcontract for a framing

or carpentry project. However, a general building contractor shall not take a prime

contract for any project involving trades other than framing or carpentry unless the

prime contract requires at least two unrelated building trades or crafts other than

framing or carpentry, or unless the general building contractor holds the appropriate

license classification or subcontracts with an appropriately licensed contractor to

perform the work. A general building contractor shall not take a subcontract involving

trades other than framing or carpentry, unless the subcontract requires at least two

unrelated trades or crafts other than framing or carpentry, or unless the general

building contractor holds the appropriate license classification. The general building

contractor may not count framing or carpentry in calculating the two unrelated trades

necessary in order for the general building contractor to be able to take a prime

contract or subcontract for a project involving other trades.



Andy.


I can do the concrete, electrical and framing. Pretty much covers all my decks.


Mike.
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:39 PM   #58
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


I Chicago you must be a city licensed electrical contractor to pull a permit for electrical work. A homeowner can not get a permit to do electrical work in the city limits.

Tom
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:25 PM   #59
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Re: Handyman Work: Unlicensed Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC


I've pulled many electrical permits. In fact even when I sub out the electrical I pull the permit.


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Old 06-23-2018, 07:32 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
I've pulled many electrical permits. In fact even when I sub out the electrical I pull the permit.


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From what I can find Chicago is the only AHJ with it written in the code.

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