H/O Hiring Unlicensed On My Project

Bodger

I have been involved in a 2800 sf new residential construction project since April of '07. Custom house, modern. Worst architect I have ever worked with, and of course, he is friends with the husband H/O.

We're over the intiial budget by $350,000, the plan was so vague and impossible to bid that I insisted that it be a cost plus contract. No problem, got that, and have been keeping the H/O informed all along as to the cost of things, keeping good records and we frequently review the estimated maximum cost to completion, based on what info I can get from the architect, which is inconsistent.

For months, I have been haranguing the architect for a drawn detail of how he proposes to sleeper Ipe decking over waterproofed balcony and roof decks. A concern to me as there is only enough vertical space for 3/4" sleepers, not enough to hold down Ipe. All previous ridiculous suggestions by this architect have been rejected by me.

I finally told him to either give me the drawings, or admit that he can't figure it out and inform the H/O that he designed himself into a corner and I refuse to build him out of it with a weak detail.

The architect brought "Juan" to the weekly meeting today. Juan has apparently, without questions or complaints, done Ipe decks somewhere in the past under the same conditions and there have been no problems.

Juan is now giving the H/O estimates for ALL the decks on the project, not just the waterproofed balcony decks, but three exterior decks as well.
I have informed the homeowner that Juan has no insurance, no bond, no WC and no general liability. They are just fine with that. "We need to save as much oney as we can now".

I haven't said anything yet, but I think I am going to inform the H/O that I have to go to the city, cancel the permit which lists me as the Priamary Contractor of Record and let them pull an owner builder. And get the hell off what will be an illegal job site.

Leo G

Sounds like the right move for you to make. You don't need the problems that will arise on your permit or company name. After you pull your permit, inform the state/township that there is an unlicensed person doing work on the house.

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Tinstaafl

Tough situation. So you're gonna quit milking the cow because she broke out of the pasture?

Yeah, you can't let him work under your permit, but it sounds like you're going to miss out on a few pounds of butter. No other way to separate his work from yours? Or is it just that you're burned about losing the deck work?

Bodger

Honestly, some of both. I'm going to approach this carefully with the H/O. tell them I have to revoke the permit to keep the liability off of me, but will be happy to work as their employee along with "Juan" to complete the remainder of the job.
But I don't relish the thought of working next to unlicensed "subs". And I know damn well the H/O will expect me to operate in the same supervisory capacity as I have been.
What I really want to do is revoke, leave the project, and report the illegal activity. I only have another 4 or 5 weeks of work left.
BUT, I don't like to have any bad blood with any of my clients if I can avoid it.
Rock and a hard place, but I will sacrifice a few bucks rather than support illegal unlicensed hacks in any manner.
JEEZ! I wish these illegals would get the hell off of the landscape.

RizzoMaryland

If there is no drawing for the decks then they can't be approved and permitted under your building permit. Here in Maryland the structural integrity of the deck has to be approved in drawing before it can be permitted. True there?

Have Juan pull separate permits for the decks. In the meantime, write up some kind of release of liability for all deck work and have homeowner sign it.

(Then make them pay down the road for supporting illegally run businesses)

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WarnerConstInc.

Is there any concrete that still needs to be poured, sure would suck if Juan has a little accident.

Mike Finley

Geez.... what the hell!

Did I get this right that you are acting as sort of project manager for the homeowner in managing the subs? I think if that's the case and you can work out doing what you said in regard to all the liabilty and permit issues and working for the homeowner as employee, you should be able to work in there that you can't oversee illegals who are subs either. That doesn't seem too hard for them to understand.

There has to be a way to get ICE involved isn't there? Preferrably right in the middle of Juan's deck building so you can then submit a nice change order which includes all the extra cost of ripping out Juan's work he did before he got deported?

Bodger

These are balcony decks that have been framed and sheeted, drains installed, and then covered with Dex-O-Tex. They are sloped to the center, so that the rainwater runs to the drain.

But, being that the sloped surface isn't great to walk on or look at, there needs to be a top finish deck, like tiles, of Ipe. Sort of how they do the cockpit of a boat.

Problem is, as we know, Ipe needs to be set down well or it will arch and cup and move. A 3/4" sleeper underneath, with no attachement to the deck below so it won't penetrate, is not going to get it.

Bodger

I'm the general contractor on the job. I pulled the permit, up to now, I hire, schedule and pay all the subs, and supervise the work I'm there for all inspections, I issue all the RFI's to the architect and manage the responses and see to it that all the changes are implemented and all plans are updated. Doing business as a GC.

This deck issue came up some months ago, I even posted on CT looking for advice on the sleeper detail, got some, but still had some trepidations about that Ipe lighting up and costing me thousands.
I told the architect that anytime in the past I had put a deck over a surface like this, I had lots of room for framing, like a heavy pallet. In some cases, I had installed steel angles to the plywood prior to the Dex-O-Tex so I would be able to lock the framing down.

This architect dodged the issue for months, I informed the thye archy and the client many times that I needed drawn details and that the architect should take some responsibility for only leaving 3/4" for furring. A point, by the way, that I had protested many times in writing and was ignored.
So at least I have that on record.

Now this archy has himself designed into a corner, and his fix is to blame me, inferring that I am "intimidated" by this, he shouldn't have to draw every little thing where every piece of wood and nail goes, and the archy brought the unlicensed guy to the site because "Juan" knows how to do this. No drawing required. The archy informed the clients, I was told, that this predicament could have been avoided had I told him sooner I was "stumped".

And I like your idea of waiting until ol' Juan is well into the job and getting EVERYBODY involved. I called the city this afternoon, spoke to a code enforcement guy, and he told me that I should immediately revoke the permit, tell the H/O to go down and pull an owner/builder permit. Otherwise, day one with Juan's band of boys, I am liable. First in line too, even thought the H/O can get stung too, I'm up first.

thom

It seems to me you're making this a bigger deal than it is.

Provide the client a letter (copy his architect) that you will separate your work from the deck work. They can deal with all the decks independently. Disavow any responsibility or liability for that work. Tell the owner to wait until your work is done then hire the other guy. Explain that you cannot accept the liability of having an unlicensed and uninsured contractor on your site but once you're done, he's free.

Call for finals on all your work but not a certificate of occupancy. Explain to the inspector what's going on. Get your work passed, get paid, then let the HO figure out how to permit the decks so he can finish up the job and get a CO.

Bodger

Sound advice, and I wish I could make it go that direction. The decks are already permitted, the rough framing under the Dex-O-Tex was inspected before it was all covered with that surface.

Part of the problem where the decks are concerned is that they have to have the finish on them to be considered to code due to the slope to the drain. The H/O's want to get into the house soon. If all safety issues are met, they can move in prior to getting the C of O. These decks would be one of those issues, so the work has to proceed pretty quick, at the same time all the rest of the finish details are being accomplished at the site.
I'm going to give it a day or two to percolate. Ol' Juan is going to need that much time to get his quote together.
Also think maybe I'll give my lawyer a call, see what he thinks about this.

Thanks for the advice Thom. I might be able to get it going that way. I might be making a bit more out of this than it is, but it came out of left field this morning, and I could not get the H/O to understand on the liability thing. They said they would write a letter that exonerated me from liability.
I don't think that's possible, and besides, there are State Contracting Licensing Board issues as well regarding licensed GC's hiring unlicensed subs, or having them at the site, regardless of who is paying them.

neolitic

That was your first thread right?
Somehow it sounded like this was
where it would end.
He picked up a pencil and drew
you both into a corner.

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Bodger

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more the anger and frustration subside and I want to do the right thing. Look out for the H/O, and myself, get the owners to understand that the root of the problem is the archy to begin with. He'd rather bring an unlicensed guy to the site than risk submitting drawings and being responsible if the detail failed. I think he knows he has experimented here and his assumption about Ipe was incorrect.

In any case, ICE, CA State Licensing Board will be notified. Looking out for the homeowner and trying to protect them from themsleves is one thing. Standing aside for an illegal contractor is another.

Bodger

Yes Neo, I had posted about this a while back. Pictures as well, got some fair amount of traction and replies and good advice once I was able to get across what the damn thing was.
The boat cockpit similarity was what sort of broke it loose and I thought I might have had a handle on it.
It still seemd flimsy to me, so I requested actual detailed stamped drawings from the archy. Never got them.
The archy apparently thinks an unlicensed contractor is the way to go instead of putting his name on anything that could fail.

neolitic

Yeah, got that.
It is obviously his tacit admission
that he hasn't a clue how to
actually do it.
Can't remember, did we discard
the possibilities of selling the HO
on composite/synthetics?
At least they will lay down
and stay put.

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doubleaction

All i can say it sucks to be you. Good luck!

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Bodger

Funny you mention that, when these decks were first framed by the framing crew (I didn't frame this one myself), I noticed how little depth there was in front of the thresholds and took another look at the plan to be sure that was right.
Brought it to the archy's attention, and was told that the decks would probably be finished with 1 X Trex, and that he had a source for some special sleepers.

Then he went and sold the H/O on Ipe, and laid the whole mess at my doorstep. All the while referring me to the Ipe web sites, and various hidden fasteners, etc. All of which was a joke and I told him so.

I have built about five Ipe decks, used Eb-Tys, and I know the joys of the Bow-Wrench and the waxed ends and all the differnt ways Ipe tries to escape the wiles of the tradesman.
Not to mention the insidious sawdust that sh!t emits.

This is a classic case of the archy dodging responsibility. I tried like hell, even on my own, to figure out how to make this work.
Screw it, I can only look out for the H/O so much, then I have to protect myself. Maybe the archy would like to run the job from here on out.

neolitic

Now that would be worth
the price of admission!

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Bodger

Thanks, I needed that

Still, it's been a moneymaker, partly due to the archy adding on some Cadillac extras and running up the estimated maximum price with delays and high-end fixtures and all that stuff And hell, it's been time and materials from the get-go and I'm all paid up.

When I was getting the job, I saw the bid set of drawings, met the archy, and I passed on the job. Looked to complicated, too modern, too much steel and moment frames, I just didn't like the plan or the architect. Sixth sense this guy was a contractor buster.

I got a call back a few weeks later and the clients were very sold on me, for whatever reason. They had talked to a number of conmtractors and just didn't get the good feeling. I told them I would do it, but I had trepidations about the archy, would be cost-plus with an ironclad contract.

Not bad, except for the archy, up to now.

I just don't like a job to go sour for any reason. Not what I like to see happen, somehow it seems like it can always come back on you even if you try to do the right thing.

mrghm

tell the home owner that you will complete all other works inclduing the standard decks, get a completion certifacte from the local authority.

then the HO can get jusan or who ever he is to come and to it once they have moved in.

same way ho get blinds etc installed.