Getting Started Need Advice.

 
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:28 PM   #21
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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I have revenue goals but I think a better long term strategy for me is to focus on production.

Only 6" get sold down here retail.

This market is pretty saturated as well but most of the competition is chuck in a truck.
Don't sell your competition too short. While you are out selling they might be receiving phone calls from people to set up installs. All said and done they might be installing just as much gutter at the same price but with less overhead.

There are both kinds of set ups in my town. I usually contract with what you call "chuck in a truck". The price is the same but in that instance the owner who I talk to is on sight, while in the other instances I might get a $15 an hour guy who isn't as knowledgeable.

I'm not taking the competition lightly. Chuck in a truck is a hustler.

We have 1 really established gutter business in town and he runs 8 trucks. He has the builder market on lock down. After reaching out to the builders in the area I found out the reason he gets all the business is because he runs a vary tight ship. Just so happens the guy who owns that business also comes from the corporate world as well
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:32 PM   #22
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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I don't have the rig yet. I plan on getting an ntm with the gutter art.

That gutter art is the bomb. I think it will really help me at the shows.
Have never seen gutter art on a single home in my area. That stuff popular down there?
It has only been in the market for about a year. I'm buying it because I want something to make me stand out.

Ntm says they have some guys getting an extra $1 a foot with it.
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:51 PM   #23
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


How much does an ntm gutter art 6" Machine go for ? Might be able to push it but I wouldn't have that machine as my primary and only machine. Some people prefer just a regular 6" gutter .


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Old 12-23-2015, 08:04 PM   #24
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


So long as you have there Mach ii machine it is just a bolt on costs $3k. You can take it off if you need to run regular k style gutter.
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:42 PM   #25
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


Salesman:

I'd make sure you have a Florida license if you need one. Even if you do a perfect job, if you're required to have a license and don't in Florida, homeowners have no obligation to pay you. Your contract is unenforceable against them, but not by them against you. They aren't playin' around down here.
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:48 PM   #26
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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Salesman:

I'd make sure you have a Florida license if you need one. Even if you do a perfect job, if you're required to have a license and don't in Florida, homeowners have no obligation to pay you. Your contract is unenforceable against them, but not by them against you. They aren't playin' around down here.
Gutters only require an occupation license in Florida. I'm not really worried about people not paying me. I'm selling the jobs so if I think the home owner won't pay he'll get the polite version of go pound sand
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:50 PM   #27
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


Salesman with no experience installing, thought it was great that he took an established business and made it more money, wants to pay a lead guy what he can make at Home Depot with benefits...yea this will be like watching Nascar. You don't know when but there is going to be a spectacular crash.

Don't take this the wrong way n but you sold gutters you didn't run a gutter business. Tight margins and no forgiveness.
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:00 PM   #28
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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Salesman with no experience installing, thought it was great that he took an established business and made it more money, wants to pay a lead guy what he can make at Home Depot with benefits...yea this will be like watching Nascar. You don't know when but there is going to be a spectacular crash.

Don't take this the wrong way n but you sold gutters you didn't run a gutter business. Tight margins and no forgiveness.
"If you want to travel fast go alone. If you want to travel far bring a team"

You concerns are heard. I stay up at night worrying about them. That's why I'm here asking for advice.

I don't think the margins are that tight so long as you are not going after the builders business.

Once I can start paying out bonuses my goal for my lead is 52k a year and 40k to the helper. When I can pay that kind of money I'm sure I will be able to attract top talent.
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:14 PM   #29
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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"If you want to travel fast go alone. If you want to travel far bring a team"

You concerns are heard. I stay up at night worrying about them. That's why I'm here asking for advice.

I don't think the margins are that tight so long as you are not going after the builders business.

Once I can start paying out bonuses my goal for my lead is 52k a year and 40k to the helper. When I can pay that kind of money I'm sure I will be able to attract top talent.

You could make money paying those numbers but you're gonna have to do some serious volume to make it worth it to you. Comp is 25k alone just for the two guys. I pay my two guys more than what you plan on paying but I run a pretty lean business other than salary and me installing with them allows me to do an extra 15-18 k a month in sales since I'm able to do more volume with a third guy.
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:33 PM   #30
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


I'm not totally inept when it comes to trade work, btw. Before the market came crashing town I was doing ok flipping houses part time.

I've gotten a couple private messages about a sales guy opening a gutter business. To that end let me just say that I see more business fail because they don't develope a sales / marketing plan.

There were some really skilled trades men who came into the roofing office. After seeing there work I was shocked they weren't fully booked. After talking with them for a little bit I eventually found out that they totally devalued the sales process if there business.

If you are a skilled trade and want to open your own business please either hire a good sales man or spend the 2k or so and go take a Dale Carnegie 1 week class.

I try to read at least 4 sales or motivational books a month.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:06 PM   #31
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


I think they fail for both reasons. Good tradesmen with lousy sales skills and salesmen with no trade experience. It's all the hidden costs that get you. It's the jobs that you sell and your lead can't deliver. Without having a good working knowledge how would you be able to vet them?
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:11 PM   #32
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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I think they fail for both reasons. Good tradesmen with lousy sales skills and salesmen with no trade experience. It's all the hidden costs that get you. It's the jobs that you sell and your lead can't deliver. Without having a good working knowledge how would you be able to vet them?

I'm giving away 1300 ft of gutters to learn the process. It will be training for my lead and myself.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:15 PM   #33
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


Just the way my mind works. I run through all of the scenarios that I never could have dreamed of encountering and then try to imagine overcoming them without little to no experience. Would scare the chit out of me.

In all sincerity, good luck!
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:17 PM   #34
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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I'm giving away 1300 ft of gutters to learn the process. It will be training for my lead and myself.

I've done over 9000 homes in 23 years. I still run into situations where I learn something new all the time. Takes years of seeing the weirdest and obscure situations to make for a functioning install. 1300 feet isn't really anything. We did that this week. Might have to find someone with experience and pay them top dollar since you really won't be able to teach them
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:44 PM   #35
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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I'm giving away 1300 ft of gutters to learn the process. It will be training for my lead and myself.

I've done over 9000 homes in 23 years. I still run into situations where I learn something new all the time. Takes years of seeing the weirdest and obscure situations to make for a functioning install. 1300 feet isn't really anything. We did that this week. Might have to find someone with experience and pay them top dollar since you really won't be able to teach them

I know it!!!!

Really my plan is the big picture.

I am absolutely dedicated making sure my start up guys are taken care of. I'm not going to offer the world to anybody in the take off. I figure in a start up my first couple of
Employees Are betting on me as much as I'm betting on them.

I plan on two years with my maximum involment after that it is solely up to them and there desires and dreams.

I don't have to be greedy to live well. Remember--- pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:59 PM   #36
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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I know it!!!!

Really my plan is the big picture.

I am absolutely dedicated making sure my start up guys are taken care of. I'm not going to offer the world to anybody in the take off. I figure in a start up my first couple of
Employees Are betting on me as much as I'm betting on them.

I plan on two years with my maximum involment after that it is solely up to them and there desires and dreams.

I don't have to be greedy to live well. Remember--- pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered.

You lost me at dreams and desires lol. More mike Rowe. Less dale Carnegie but good luck anyway
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Old 12-23-2015, 11:03 PM   #37
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Met Mike Rowe cool dude.
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:01 AM   #38
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


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I'm not taking the competition lightly. Chuck in a truck is a hustler.

We have 1 really established gutter business in town and he runs 8 trucks. He has the builder market on lock down. After reaching out to the builders in the area I found out the reason he gets all the business is because he runs a vary tight ship. Just so happens the guy who owns that business also comes from the corporate world as well
You said most of the competition is chuck in a truck, now we here of the 8 truck business. You don't have to sell us on your idea.

The reason there is a little push back to your idea, is because almost everyone starts in the field. What ends up happening is that the owner provided highly discounted labor to get the ball rolling. It's a luxury you don't have.

So my few thoughts based on what I have read so far. If I where you I would forget about the gutter art. That looks cheep and terrible on white gutters. It might be all right on copper but I don't think a new business needs that machine.

Secondly I would consider subbing to one of the chuck in a truck crews to get started. If you can negotiate a good price, and have the sales skills you might end up in a better spot.
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:33 AM   #39
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


I would have to say that your severely under estimating the chuck in a truck and at the same time placing too much stock into your $15/hour lead guy.
Maybe the reason that your competition is one or two guys hanging gutters, is that there isn't enough margin to have a full time salesman.
Also, I'm betting that you're going to run into the same problem that everyone else looking for a reliable guy encounters. If the guy is any good he will either be locked in with someone else, or be working for himself. IMO $15 an hour isn't even close to what it would take to have a fully functioning, reliable, and skilled lead guy.
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:04 AM   #40
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Re: Getting Started Need Advice.


Don't take any of my input negatively. This is just my impression of what I have read.

I'm sure you are a great salesperson. I think you have a good idea, but I see some issues that you may not be able to overcome.

You are wanting to pay someone a low wage. Yep, low. You want a guy to take your truck and machine, deal with the customer, do a good job, and manage another person. All for $15 per hour. Yes, you are guaranteeing 40 hours per week. This tells me, if they work 30 hours, they still get paid for 40. Right? You will need to pay more for good help.

The reason is because you need someone you can count on. If you are only a salesperson, you aren't going to install. For example, on Monday you have 3 houses lined up for removal and install. Your guy doesn't show up. Or is sick. It could be legitimate. Now your truck sits, you have to call customers and re-schedule. Your business is completely reliant on another person.

I had to look up the art thing. Maybe that is something in Florida. I don't see it around here.

You have one competitor running 8 trucks. The owner may be the salesperson or he/she might have a salesperson. If someone drops the ball, he has 7 other trucks that can make up the difference.

You have one truck. You are in competition with "Chuck in a Truck." You are underestimating him. You say you aren't, but if you weren't you wouldn't refer to him as "Chuck in a Truck." It's a derogatory term. You don't have respect for him. When in reality, he is your competition. He sells the jobs, installs the jobs, and collects the money. He probably pays one helper in cash. He doesn't have insurance. He will beat you on price everytime.

You want to start a business. That is great. I think you have picked a trade that is very narrow in scope of work. If you really want to have a business and sell, but not perform any hands on work, I suggest you think bigger. Siding, gutters, fascia, soffit, windows.

Keep in mind, I don't do gutters so I don't really know the business.

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