GC's Running Jobs And Not Swinging A Hammer?

FWConstGrp

This thread is an after thought of the "Letting Go" thread.

I was curious as to how many of you contractors sub all of your work and are not out their swinging a hammer [or your tool of choice]?

Obviously, I'm fairly new to the board and haven't shared much about myself. I will in time.

However, my intention is to sub all of my work vice performing it myself. I grew up a carpenter working for my fathers construction company. I had the opportunity and I took a job as a construction supervisor and found that I enjoyed project management more than swinging a hammer. Which has landed me were I am currently, a GC with no intention of performing the work myself.

Any thoughts? Nothing specific I was just curious.

Grumpy

I am not a GC as referred to as a builder, however I do consider myself to be a GC in the loosest sense of the term. I do multiple types of work and I sub out most of my labor except small jobs and repairs. I try to do as little labor as possible, however from time to time I do need to work with the crews. This seems to be in par with what you were describing.

I see nothing wrong with this business model, though my opinions tend to be slightly on the controversial side. You are going to hear alot of guys chime in and say quality will suffer, you'll have more stress, you'll make less money, etc... This is only true if you let it be true.

Cole

I do both.

I sub out a lot of work but I also do a lot of work myself.

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joasis

I do both....we have 3 crews now, and there are certain jobs we keep entirely "in house" or we sub, depending only on how it works into the schedule. As a GC, I manage, but also fill in when we are short on a crew, I install overhead doors and do bobcat/backhoe work as a sideline to our regular construction work. When we do steel erection, I am on the site doing most of the welding, with a contractor. In new construction, I am on site as needed.....

What I have yet to figure out is how to have time off....there is always some place I have to be.

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FWConstGrp

Thanks for the replies. It's interesting to hear about others' stories.

I guess I really would prefer to manage the jobs rather than build them these days. I feel that I have a solid business model and things should work out fine.

I do think this will also allow me to focus other the other important tasks of running the business as well. My partner is a carpenter by trade and like me decided to go the project management route versus swinging a hammer for life [There's nothing wrong with this by the way, my father still does] which gives him a good broad base of knowledge as well.

I really hope to find my niche market and work that but for now we will work residential remodel and new construction.

dirt diggler

whatever works for ya (yeah, what a lame response)

Frankly, (just from MY observation. Disclaimer: my observation is composed of things I see, things I hear --- all of which I suppose are not credible sources, lol ) the GC's makin the bacon aren't usually physically involved in anything except collecting and handing out checks.

Some might not even know how to swing a hammer, or even want to --- but it doesn't matter. They don't have time to swing hammers ... they're too busy counting green

Repeat: They don't have time to swing hammers ... they're too busy counting green

certainly nothing wrong with that (unless you're communist I suppose)

So, yes, your "model" works ... works darn good too

dirt diggler

oh --- more

im sure you know this already


but know your costs ...

know how much it takes to pay for materials, the shipping for those materials, the sales tax for those materials, the gas it takes to pick up these materials, or the delivery charge for these materials to get there ... extra cell phone minutes for calling your supplier when they forgot something ... the gas it takes to go pick up whatever they forgot ... a new tire for the flat that you had on the way to pick up whatever they forgot ...

then ... how much your subs charge ... how much your subs will charge again ... how much your subs will charge for stuff that they didn't say they were going to charge for when you asked them the first and second time ... ah --- extra cell phone time ... Tums .... how much they'll charge to clean up their own mess (which IS technically your mess btw)

oh and insurance, oil changes, food (at least something to maintain proper blood sugar levels during the day), insurance, insurance, personal living, tools, present tools, tools that you'll need one day

and I'm sure someone will charge you for flushing a toilet at some point

oh ... and a bottle of wine

Mike Finley

We only sub what we can't do legally such as electrical and plumbing.

Teetorbilt

Most GC's here swing pens and some are downright dangerous with tools. Please don't ask me to incriminate some friends.

With most, all that you have to do is pay attention.
Is the guy sweating profusely after leaving his SUV?
Is his belt size over twice his height?
Does he have breathing problems after walking 150 ft.?
When you shake hands, are his softer than your wifes?
Is his grip softer than your wifes?
Does he worry about getting his shoes 'soiled'?

This could be it's own post. Pretty funny too.

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dirt diggler

HHAHAHAHAHAHA --- EXACTLY!!!!!

and I am actually "lol-ing" --- not just sayin it

IHI

I'd love to fiagure out how to work that...my closed mindedness I guess. Alomst every customer I get is through referrals so they're calling me because I will be on site with my crew making sure their job gets done right. I've often thought about it and the few times due to scheduling conflicts I've called in subs it never really "felt right". Customers would call and ask me questions and I would have no idea what the subs on site intentions were for the next day's work and other off the wall ?'s I'd get. If I had the time to baby-sit job sites it'd be no big deal keeping up on things, but customers call me since I'm the one doing the job. I'd think that if I subbed everything out then like most smart homeowners now days eventually they'd be like-why pay a middle man (you the GC) when we can just call that sub that actually did the work since that is who will be sent out anyways.

Calling these types of folks general contractors is an insult, they are "brokers" at best since all they're doing is pushing paperwork and getting paid for being the middle man. Does'nt take to awful much for residential type work to be a "babysitter" but if you can make it work I'm envious, just dont get too caught up with the title of GC, it should be initalized GO for "general organizer" as that is all this type of person is doing.

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Glasshousebltr

I beg to differ Josh. If it's done right, GC is a hell of a lot of work. Maybe not so much for projects under 10k, it's pretty easy to hop scotch these one to another, but new homes, condos, commercial..... etc, will turn into a 12/7 deal so fast you'll think "Time to make the doughnuts"

Bob

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Bob

dirt diggler

I see what you mean too

however, have to remember that the GC is still liable and responsible for a job whether they use subcontractors, or in-house crews, or hobbits. In other words, it's not "babysitting." It's their name/neck on a contract --- and I think anyone in that position deserves whatever reward they set out to make --- cuz you'll earn it three times over

Heck, who cares really --- they're laughin to the bank!

what a world, huh?

ApgarNJ

I consider myself a GC, but also a builder. because i run all the jobs, i bid the jobs, i manage the subs for stuff i don't want to do. or can't do legally.
ill sub out masonry, plumbing, electrical, insulation, hvac, drywall, painting, sometimes flooring but rarely. roofing is subbed out. not much else. me and my guys do the rest. from framing to finish.
I know there are guys that never touch tools, and that's ok, as long as they know how to do the work. i don't like guys that are just paper pushers that have never even built anything before but they think they can just hire people and have a company. that's not right.
if/when i start to sub more out, as i get older, i'll still know that i have done all of this stuff before.
the upside of subbing a few more things out, is that you can run a lot more jobs at one time, rather than just one or two big ones at a time.
that is where i'd like to head my company in the future to where i do some of the work but not nearly as much as i'm doing now, just so i can take on more jobs at once. GC can be a lot of work if you have several big jobs going at once. it's not physical labor but it's still stressful to run the jobs and make sure everything is getting done properly. I myself am so picky that i have to be on the jobs doing most of the work so i know it doens't have to get fixed later because i was out driving around and the sub or employee did it wrong.

i really dont like the term GC because some guys will think you just hire everyone as a sub and never touch a hammer. the term builder is a better suited for guys that only sub certain things out.

DaveH

Backs break
Arms get tired
Legs get weak
Over time it happens
You will always make better money with your mind than with your hands. Anyone who feels they have to self perform to make money is missing the boat because the machismo is getting in the way....

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IHI

I know what you fellas are getting at with it being "work" not matter which way you slice it. And with large multiple projects going you could easily get a migrain keeping track of everything, but either way I'll take the mental stress of overseeing a job vs both the mental AND phsyical abuse we in the feild go through now...might be the grass is greener theory taking place

Regardless I still feel the term general contractor does not apply if not going hands on. IMO and at least in this area a GC is a business/firm that consists of the "main cheese" with any amount of helper you wish to hire. The use their employee's to run the jobs and only sub out what they can legally not touch, and even then the larger GC's will employee their own "speality" employee's so they can handle any facuet of any job as far as the building goes.

Broker IMO is the person who has little to do with anything and just plays messenger between home owner and outside sources doing the work. They are getting paid to paper push, ie "hand contract to homeowner...get a check. Call subs up and schedule start date. Subs perform work. Stop back into homwowners and pick up final check. Write check to subs for work. Done."

I'm not saying being a broker is easy, until you find good subs and get their respect you'll be creating your own headaches...kinda like finding a good employee, your job will only be as stressful as you let it. Hire cheap help-it will equal more fock up's and headaches. Hire good help that is a mirror imagine of yourself and can handle situations, the only stressful thing you should have to deal with is delays in materials coming in since that is out of your control.

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FWConstGrp

You guys are hilarious.

There are some very valid points. Thanks for the responses and advice. I will take all of it with me along side my pen while the hammer lays in the truck...hehe.

The idea of being called a GC is not as glamorous here in Florida as it is in most places, I would guess. I've often found that a lot of "tradesman" in Florida don't treat there craft as a craft. It's just the only job they could find when they got out of jail or the drunk tank. I remember the days of working for my dad at 17 yrs old and having to drive by in my truck to pick up two guys for work because they couldn't drive.

I will be around this board for a long time and look forward to posting some of my successes.

Donny

Ed Michnick

Donny,
If you are stricly looking to build custom homes and want to do multiple ones at a time, subbing everything out is the right way to go. There is just to much time in supervision, paperwork, addressing the clients needs and selections and on and on...... to be able to do all the work yourself. One work of advice, if your are going to sub everything you need to get the best of the best of sub-contractors which usually don't come cheap in the short run, but pay for themselves in the long run.

dirt diggler

I agree!

ChicagoLawn

Hello fellow business professionals!

After about 13 years of owning and operating a Landscape and Snow Management business in the greater Chicagoland area, I will most certainly say that the day five years ago, when I began sub-contracting roughly 85% of gross receipts was a fantastic new beginning!

I have studied many systemitized business models and have picked out the valuable information that I could employ at different stages of my particular business. Every 6 months or so I re-align my business goals with my personal goals to make a WIN/WIN lifestyle. The bottom line is .........IT WORKS.

I view my role as an entrepreneur as a person who will continue to explore new opportunity and find the "next door" for my company to open and navigate. I take great pride in finding new and creative ways to maximize current assets and talent. Our team is ever learning, profiting and have grown accustomed to change - ALWAYS.

Besides performing goal setting, routing, estimating, etc. I also perform hands on work in the field....... by choice. I find that in my particular profession, one can really stay physically fit and mentally sharp (not to mention upsell current and new clientel) if you perform the work from time to time. Granted I have carved out several services that I can render entirely by myself and at a time of my choosing. This niche work that I perform helps generate a handsome income and allows me to continually refine my company systems.

Another one of my proud accomplishments is that I have created about 70% of my independant contractors and not to mention well beyond any IRS standards needed to be "factually" an Independant Contractor in the Auditing governments eyes. (Inc: equipment, insurance, entirely free to choose who to work for, etc.).

Do not be intimidated to explore new opportunity with help from Independant Contractors. You will be surprised at how many IC's will be very happy to have met a like minded professional to mutually improve and profit from well into the future.

Thank you for the great information on this forum!

I will continue to read with great interest and share when I feel compelled.

Joe