Frameless glass shower build, ideas please - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

rotarex · 12-21-2008, 08:34 AM

how much should i charge

kidding kidding

ok here is the specs 5' wide, 3' deep, 8' high

they want all glass front, glass door, and a bench,
now im running into problem with the glass with the bench in the way
im drawing it on sketchup

this is my 2nd frameless glass shower and i dont belive in letting the glass company installing it, when im bored of it and have more experience then i will

where is says "this glass", thats where my Problem is, i think it might give trouble to install and may be easy to break

P.S im not going to put tile where the glass is going to sit, until i install the glass, this way it fits tight and no trouble

Mike Finley · 12-21-2008, 11:07 AM

What the hell is the question?

orson · 12-21-2008, 11:38 AM

I'm lost, can we get a plan view?

What are the white areas?

What are the lines w/ 2'-1 between them?

Why would you set the glass first and tile up to it? Are you nixing the floor track?

Where is your curb?

Mike Finley · 12-21-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotarex

where is says "this glass", thats where my Problem is, i think it might give trouble to install and may be easy to break

Of course it's a problem, that's a sure place where there is danger or breaking the glass, that's why I'd let a professional glass company do the installation and take on the risk and free you to do what you do best (which isn't installing glass) right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotarex

P.S im not going to put tile where the glass is going to sit, until i install the glass, this way it fits tight and no trouble

Again, there won't be any trouble if you have this professionally installed and you can install it after the tile is installed since professionals won't have any problems doing it correctly at that point.

How much money are you saving doing this yourself? I'm guessing the installation is less then 10% of the cost of the glass. The savings aren't that large compared to the work and the risk you are taking on.

rotarex · 12-21-2008, 12:09 PM

savings are close to $1000

oh my question is, should i move my glass more to the right this way it sits on top of the bench and the glass is not cut to have the skinny piece,
or move it more left.

as you see the door is placed in the center on center so this is where i have that wired piece of glass between the bench and door

im going to tile after the curb after i install the glass, so it wedges it in place, there is no track (frameless glass)

and the white part is the open 3 inches at the bottom and what ever it was at the top

What are the lines w/ 2'-1 between them? that's the gap between the shower door and the stable glass, its actually more like 1/4 inch but drawing problems, with program

Mike Finley · 12-21-2008, 01:10 PM

You don't need to wedge glass between tile to not have a track, but whatever makes it work for you I guess. Yes, I'd get rid of the 3 1/2 wing if you are installing it yourself, or maybe not, I really can't tell from your drawing what the heck you are doing.

Why is there an 8" tall piece of glass to step over to get into the shower?

Where are your hinges? On the left I would guess?

No header? How are you going to stabalize the glass panel with the door attached to it? (I'm guessing maybe this glass will go to the ceiling?)

What is a "wired" piece of glass?

Is it customary in Canada to leave a 3" gap under the door?

A 25" door would be considered a tad bit small in the USA.

$1000 for install, Toronto glass companies are getting a lot for install! To bad your customer won't pay for the installation.

orson · 12-21-2008, 01:14 PM

When we do frameless glass there is still a metal track that the glass sits in at the bottom.

I suppose one could argue that the glass isn't really "frameless", however, the idea of frameless glass is that there isn't a top rail or a frame on the corners. Here is an example. Note there is still a metal track at the bottom of the glass:

olyteddy · 12-21-2008, 01:27 PM

Just a thought: why not hinge the door to the wall, making that skinny piece of glass wider?

Kgmz · 12-21-2008, 03:29 PM

Seriously get a good glass guy to do this. He will have the know how and have better ideas on how this should work.

Take a look at the website link below, this is the company that does all the glass work for our showers. He does excellant work and we only use the frameless heavy glass, 1/2" thick glass.

And I would not do what you are considering, leaving a gap or groove in the tile so that you can tile up to the glass. Talk about potential leaks. The very small frame at the walls on the frameless glass is really hardly noticeable if you get it in a finish that compliments the tile.

rotarex · 12-21-2008, 04:17 PM

wow i must be really bad at explaining my self haha, yes frameless glass it going straight to the ceiling, and no need for a frame, but i will do one, it looks nice, and i know it will be stronger for the door to hold on to,

it will be hinged on the left side of the pic, onto glass....i would prefer to do it right off the wall this way its on a stud

doors here in Toronto standard size is 24-26" guys ........lets just end that one rite there, yes you can get bigger.

glass will be helled in by clear silicon

downfall to doing glass here, god dam the price is alot, they always try to sell you installation, its about $1600-$2800 for glass and install for this job can you say wowzerz, im paying $800 that price is impossible to get from anyone els around here, most quoted $1200+

and you have to wait 6-8 weeks for the glass to arrive
thats why this pic is missing the door and a side glass and i havent had time to go back for a pic

here is my 1st shower
my 1st tile job
and 1st frameless glass

i have done 3 showers after this, and out of all the renos, this is what my joy is doing, no pride yet, till i can do it blindfolded

WarnerConstInc. · 12-21-2008, 05:02 PM

Looks like a good spot for water to start getting into and not even know it untill it is too late. I let the glas guys do it, that stuff makes me nervous.

Mike Finley · 12-21-2008, 09:05 PM

6-8 weeks for glass? Wow, and I thought 7-10 days was long!

rotarex · 12-21-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc.

Looks like a good spot for water to start getting into and not even know it untill it is too late. I let the glas guys do it, that stuff makes me nervous.

nahh no water, good silicon and red-guard underneath and its good to go, people also says don't use mastic its no good, well the 2 washrooms i just demolished was mastic and they were 30 years old and super minor leak, what you would expect from 30 years

yea the 6-8 weeks is horrible man, i dont get my final pay till then, sometimes the $1000 saved is not worth it, but this job im not making that much so what ever saved is good. and thats not the only reason im doing it my self, i do believe that as a GC i should know to do everything, so i always know what im talking about, and know the trouble behind it.

TheBuildingFirm · 12-21-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

i do believe that as a GC i should know to do everything

So you`re saying it`s reasonable to wait 6 weeks for a functioning shower because you want to learn how to install one. Perhaps you should consider using different suppliers. Most glass door places in the GTA will have the glass installed at most 2 weeks after the measurement.

I can just imagine my clients going ballistic after I tell them to wait 45 days until they can use their shoer.

As a GC you should be out working on trying to sell and manage the next job.

rotarex · 12-21-2008, 11:19 PM

yea i know places will install in 2 weeks, this is how they sell you, but my client dont want to pay for that, so thats that, one shower will be done for them, which is the tub, ill post pics next week, in a new thread, and soon i hope to find a glass company to work with, but alot of people try to back stabb, and try to get the whole job, so only in time can tell

BSmart · 12-22-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotarex

nahh no water, good silicon and red-guard underneath and its good to go, people also says don't use mastic its no good,

I heard a guy say once "Physics always trumps chemistry". It sounds stupid, but he was right. Don't ever count on silicone or red guard to keep water out. We always install directly on a solid piece of tile or a corian wall cap. Tiling up to the glass is asking for trouble. Not if but when

WarnerConstInc. · 12-22-2008, 09:36 PM

No offense, but after I looked again at that picture again, that just looks like a cheap crappy way of doing it.

rotarex · 12-22-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc.

No offense, but after I looked again at that picture again, that just looks like a cheap crappy way of doing it.

LOL so thats why i ask for ideas

Home Work Pro · 12-23-2008, 06:34 AM

Relying on caulking for your first one may not be a problem because the glass is on a half wall. It would be foolish to expect a caulking job to hold up in the diagram above. Also, installing glass tight between the curb and the ceiling may crack when the house is subjected to a snow load. Take your time to find a good glass company to measure and install or your just looking for headaches down the road.

b.andrewsmith · 12-23-2008, 02:46 PM

...I don't even know where to start. You are setting yourself up to have numerous problems.

First - I've attached a drawing that I think is more what you were shooting for in your first post.

If you absolutely want to do this shower yourself I'd recommend getting help with the glass measuring, ordering, and installing. If you are lucky enough you could possibly find a glazier or glass setter to install it WITH you. But if you are going to attempt it on your own I'd strongly advise against it.

Here's why:
If you aren't aware, all shower door glass is tempered, meaning it can't be re-cut if its measured and ordered wrong. Also, you have to make deductions on each piece of glass depending on extrusions, hinges, hardware etc. So if you aren't very familiar with those, don't even try it. If you want to hinge a door off of a lite of glass that is narrower than the door then the sheer force on the top of the panel must be accounted for.

This isn't a hit or miss situation. Realize that by trying to struggle through it on your own you'll spend twice as much time and money then if you called a professional in the beginning. I don't know about you, but my time is worth something, so I don't like wasting it. Also keep in mind that broken tempered glass can hurt you just as badly as plate glass if you are on the receiving end of it.

I don't even start to measure or fabricate any shower until all of the tile is in. To order the right glass you must be able to take hard measurements then subtract deductions for fabrication. Not to mention measuring out of square conditions that the glass will actually be set on. So don't think you can somehow install your tile AFTER the glass... you will have to drill through the tile in multiple places in order to structurally support the design you want.

If you think you are getting hosed on price, then keeping calling around and getting estimates. The national glass association (NGA) certifies installers and manufacturers to provide high quality installation... and with the way that the economy is right now I guarantee you could get competitive pricing with so many people needing the business.