Forced Insurance By Owner - Ccip

nccontract2008

north carolina. question is, did some contract work for owner (large contractor/developer). further down the line, the owner decided to employ an insurance company (CIP) to control insurance (workers comp, excess liab) - CCIP.
when we started contracts with the owner, this was not needed. we sub'd all work out to companies with their own insurance. halfway through, the owner decided to change tactiques and go with ccip - but did not really enforce it on us. ie they were desperate for the work to get done to get their C.O. and we never did enrol. now, the work is all done and the owner will not pay us until we sort out paperwork with ccip. this is not the first time this owner has bs'd us and stalled for payment. they constantly are doing this, what's new?h is it legal for the ccip to retroactively charge us now for work that has already been done - and for work done by subs who were covered already at the time?
these people are killing us - they stall payment at every opportunity and we are a small company and with zero cash flow, this has totally ham-strung us.

silvertree

Depends on a few things. BS or not, if you don't have the right insurance I would guess guys are gonna have a problem. Report the GC, that might get him in trouble also, but you gotta know what you signed with the GC. If you were sloppy with your paperwork you are about to get an education. But you did not provide enough information for me to figure out who did what to whom. The days of conning the Ins. company are over. Good luck.

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Brickie

What does your contract have in it??? Did you sign any sub agreement???

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nccontract2008

thanks for the replies. education, i guess is right.
to clarify, we contracted with the GC to restore some elements of the building; doors, windows etc.. Our speciality is restoration, which was all done off-site. when it came to re-installation, ie on-site work, we sub-contracted this to good guys we know, who have all the insurance they need; workers comp etc..
the question: is it possible for GC to withhold payment for this work (which has all been done) on the grounds that the paperwork has not been done with the ccip. the answer to this is yes, because i know that's in the contract - but they let us do the work knowing we had not sorted that paperwork out. the reason we did not get on it is because 1) the subs we used all had their insurance 2) when we started work for these guys this ccip was not required and 3) we neglected it. we are not trying to cheat anyone in any way.
the question is can the ccip really try to charge us (or if you believe what they say, give us a rebate) retro-actively? it is not about the money we may or may not owe them right now (small compared to outstanding contracts owed) but the fact that the GC is stalling on payment because of this paperwork.

Brickie

If that's the case there should be no problem for you to copies of their GL, WC, etc., from your subs so you can get paid from the GC.

BTW, I would've had all of that in my hand from the subs before they would have done any work at all.

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Grumpy

It all goes back to your signed agreements and local laws. If it was in the original agreement or is a local law you need to get it. If it wasn't part of the original agreement it's a change order. Find out how much it costs, add yoru markup, provide a change order and ask them to sign it.

AintNoFun

i dont know about a ccip but we have do work with OCIP, owner controlled insurance policy, where the Owner actually picks up the bill for everything. work comp, g/l, auto, etc. when we get auditied for our work comp we provide this, with all the man hours worked on site and we dont get charged for it...

silvertree

That clears up a few things, now it sounds like an excuse to stall payment. But my insurance (I'm a GC who sometimes subcontracts) says don't pay someone for work unless you have all the WC and liability paperwork, or if I pay on unclear paperwork then when I'm audited (which is self audit once a month) and an office audit once a year, I will get charged and those charges will be rebated when the paperwork clears, if the paperwork clears. It's a hassle and after 5 years of doing this, I still don't always understand where I stand. But I'm not sure after you said -" We do restoration and hired subs to do the install"-. That make you a GC in a way and I don't know how insurance looks at that, my role is clear, I bid the job and anything I don't do is subbed and that makes me a GC whether it's just me and a painter sub or me and 10 trades for subs.

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Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
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Tscarborough

"but they let us do the work knowing we had not sorted that paperwork out. the reason we did not get on it is because 1) the subs we used all had their insurance 2) when we started work for these guys this ccip was not required and 3) we neglected it. we are not trying to cheat anyone in any way."

They are not your daddy. Sort your chit out and do not perform work unless you do it per contract.

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silvertree

They are not your daddy. Sort your chit out and do not perform work unless you do it per contract.---------------------------------------------

Yep, whats done is done and guilty until proven innocent-----------------!
I have a friend who paid out big time because he wasn't sure and when he got audited it was pay up or never get insurance again.

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Vote for Pedro
Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
203K Loan Consultant Minnesota

Tscarborough

"is it possible for GC to withhold payment for this work (which has all been done) on the grounds that the paperwork has not been done with the ccip. the answer to this is yes, because i know that's in the contract"

The bold is all that needs to be said.

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