Experience: Is The Respect Warranted?

Originally Posted by poole_3

Thanks for the feedback. I think we can come to a bit of a consensus that experience is in the least overemphasized and at most counter-productive.

Originally Posted by poole_3

I doubt there is any other industry that values experience like construction. It just seems to be all about how many years you've got under your belt.

Your assumption is wrong. This is the case in just about any industry. "Time in grade" is the assumptive guage of skill/ability/knowledge. Whether you're building houses or repairing heart valves--the assumption is the longer you've been doing it, the more skilled you are. This, of course, isn't always the case.

"How many years you been doin' this Bill?"
"28 Tommy, and I've grinded every bit of the way."
"Well, my 30 years trumps your 28, so I think I'll take charge here."

While this is probably an over-dramatization of actual conversations that take place on construction job-sites (and more subtly in boardrooms), experience trumps everything in construction, especially education. If you tried to play the, "but I've got a master's degree" card, your well-educated behind will be cured in concrete in the very near future.

Again, this is fluff--a non-statement. You don't hire a day one MBA grad to CEO a Fortune 500 company.

But the question really is if this experience and perceived superiority in the business is in fact warranted. Has anyone really explored this or is it just a forgone conclusion that experienced personnel are better than inexperienced or less experienced? Well, the answer is maybe (to both questions). However this investigation in the construction industry is shallow at best.

Experience is only one factor with which we judge someone's skill. My martial arts instructor used to say: "Some people have 20 years of experience, and some have 1 year, 20 times." I can't assume the 20 year guy knows what he's doing until I talk to him face-to-face, or see him in action. I can always assume that the inexperienced guy knows next to nothing--even if he has a lot of passion and a great attitude.
While experience can certainly be advantageous, I'm often puzzled by the choices experienced people make. The folks that loaned money to people to buy a house when it was clear that they could not sustain the payments was certainly done by experienced people. Experienced people were behind the accounting scandals, and let's not forget that the now infamous Bernie Madoff was 65 years old before his crooked operation was put to bed, much to the disadvantage of his investors.
But it's not only in the national news that I find experienced people doing questionable and unethical things. In my experience on construction sites, I have seen millions of dollars thrown out the window by very experienced people. I don't think this is because of their lack of intelligence, but more attributable to the way in which their performance is measured. Or perhaps because that is that way they were taught, and therefore the way that is reinforced and rewarded by their organization.

Experience is supposed to lead to good judgement. But often what leads to experience is bad judgement. We all do the best we can with what we've got--the degree to which we're considered "ethical" is only a matter of results.

There is an old saying that I learned growing up playing golf that I think applies across the board in life - "Practice does not necessarily make perfect; practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect."

Definitely.

In order for experience to be truly more valuable, the experience one holds must but be of high operational, managerial, and ethical standard. Else, experience is nothing more than a reinforcement of bad practice that is more difficult to undo.

If you are banking on resting on your well seasoned and perhaps unethical laurels to push you through to the end of your career, I'm afraid that you are sadly mistaken, and I mean this when I say it - you should get out now.

Who are you speaking to? I realize this is a rhetorical statement--but have you ever met anyone that would consider themselves "unethical"? That's like asking someone if they're honest.

We cannot allow the "experienced" decision makers in our industry to continue down an unethical road (if they are of course). I know that I will have to evolve in my career as things change over the years and I will not be able to coast along upon reaching a certain number of years. Our business is in dire need of change and we can't wait another ten years for this to happen. Old dogs can certainly learn new tricks, if fact, they must.

Originally Posted by greg24k

I know guys in business for over 20 years and they still didn't learn anything and every time you run in to them, they always bitch about some kind of a problem they are having. If common sense was used, there wouldn't be any problems.

I personally believe there are 2 type of contractors, I will not add hacks to this category.

1.There are guys who go out and do the job with pride and integrity, no matter how many years they have behind them, they have an open mind and always listen, learn and try new tricks of the trade if they make any sense.

2. There is also guys who been doing this for a long time, who think they know everything, nothing you can tell them, and they do it just for the money. They don't care about the outcome, they don't care about the quality, they don't care about nothing.

Like Mac said "You can work the same job for 30 years but if you're dumb as a rock, you're not going to be more experienced than an intelligent person who works for 5 years, learning every moment"

Originally Posted by poole_3

Please comment on my latest post from my constructonomics blog. Thanks, I'm sure I'll get some good ones from this.



I doubt there is any other industry that values experience like construction. It just seems to be all about how many years you've got under your belt.

Um ... have you ever met anyone with a government job? Hello ... "TENURE"


"How many years you been doin' this Bill?"
"28 Tommy, and I've grinded every bit of the way."
"Well, my 30 years trumps your 28, so I think I'll take charge here."

I've actually never heard someone say that.

While this is probably an over-dramatization of actual conversations that take place on construction job-sites (and more subtly in boardrooms), experience trumps everything in construction, especially education. If you tried to play the, "but I've got a master's degree" card, your well-educated behind will be cured in concrete in the very near future.

I get a kick out of the "construction management" degrees. They're cute!!

But the question really is if this experience and perceived superiority in the business is in fact warranted. Has anyone really explored this or is it just a forgone conclusion that experienced personnel are better than inexperienced or less experienced? Well, the answer is maybe (to both questions). However this investigation in the construction industry is shallow at best.


Again, why limit this to the construction industry??

While experience can certainly be advantageous, I'm often puzzled by the choices experienced people make. The folks that loaned money to people to buy a house when it was clear that they could not sustain the payments was certainly done by experienced people. Experienced people were behind the accounting scandals, and let's not forget that the now infamous Bernie Madoff was 65 years old before his crooked operation was put to bed, much to the disadvantage of his investors.


Oh ... yeah - good point. Okay, you convinced me - experienced people suck. All of them

But it's not only in the national news that I find experienced people doing questionable and unethical things. In my experience on construction sites, I have seen millions of dollars thrown out the window by very experienced people. I don't think this is because of their lack of intelligence, but more attributable to the way in which their performance is measured. Or perhaps because that is that way they were taught, and therefore the way that is reinforced and rewarded by their organization.

huh?

There is an old saying that I learned growing up playing golf that I think applies across the board in life - "Practice does not necessarily make perfect; practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect."

again ... "huh" ?

In order for experience to be truly more valuable, the experience one holds must but be of high operational, managerial, and ethical standard. Else, experience is nothing more than a reinforcement of bad practice that is more difficult to undo.

It always does. So does inexperience. There's no such thing as "bad practice" and long term success.

If you are banking on resting on your well seasoned and perhaps unethical laurels to push you through to the end of your career, I'm afraid that you are sadly mistaken, and I mean this when I say it - you should get out now.

what laurels? There's no laurels in running a business.

We cannot allow the "experienced" decision makers in our industry to continue down an unethical road (if they are of course). I know that I will have to evolve in my career as things change over the years and I will not be able to coast along upon reaching a certain number of years. Our business is in dire need of change and we can't wait another ten years for this to happen. Old dogs can certainly learn new tricks, if fact, they must.