Did They Install A Fake Lennox?

Chris G

I've heard a rumour that there was an HVAC company that would install a Lennox knock off and just slap a Lennox sticker on it, and price it as if it were a real Lennox.

Lennox is a manufacturer right?

I googled the product number for this unit and got Armstrong...I know nothing of Air conditioners, but my client asked me why it's so noisy, and I noticed the Lennox sticker stuck on cockeyed. I have the name of the HVAC company that installed it, and it's not Lennox. So just wondering if he got screwed.

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mdshunk

Armstrong is Lennox's low line. Some models are the exact same.

I used to install Goodman stuff, mostly. Certain models came with a Goodman, Janitrol, and Kenmore tag in the box, and you just slapped on whatever brand you wanted it to be. I saw a Frigidaire AHU going in the other day that had a couple brand tags in the installation paperwork they could use. There aren't but a few manufacturers who make the lion's share of a zillion "brands". Not all of them are bold enough to ship the unit with the brand tags you pick for yourself right in the box, however... but some are. In your case, I suspect that that unit pictured is offerred by under the Lennox and the Armstrong brand, and you just pick which sticker you want.

Chris G

That makes more sense that fake ac units. Kind of like how my Kenmore fridge looks lust like a fridgidaire. The power of branding....

mdshunk

I will say that the unit in your picture has a brand "sticker", which is unusual in my experience. Normally, when the unit can have several brands, the brand tag is a molded plastic piece that you click into a couple of predrilled holes in the unit. I'm sure your unit is legit, but the sticker is a little weird for me to see. I'm not that familiar with the Lennox brand, but I guess that's how they do it on their bottom tier units. I know that Lennox's top teir one's have real nice tags, and the sheet metal parts appear to be powder coated instead of painted. They have some real good looking higher end units, which are only offered under the Lennox brand. Most companies operate a low end component, with a different brand name, so that it doesn't tarnish the flagship brand name. Somewhere in the middle grades, you can get the same unit under either brand. It's not really a secret, but not really common knowledge either.

Big Bob

Sometimes to catch a crook you got to think like one.

Call the local Lennox jobber/ distributor. Tell him you think you have a bad compressor. Give him the model # and the serial #. You want to know if it is in warranty period.

He should be able to tell you who purchased and when.

troubleseeker

This is not very common knowledge, even among the construction trade. I found this out about 8 years ago when a customer had speced a Lennox system, and blew up when he went into the attic and saw a different brand name than "Lennox" on the heating coil. I admit, I was pretty mad myself, as this was our regular ac guy, not some cheap price one job find, and the thought that he was trying to pick up a few extra bucks by putting in cheaper equipment in the attic did not sit well. When I called him he explained this to me, and said that he would gladly meet with the owner and I and bring documents to sustain his claim. It was true, this was the exact same unit, just with a different brand tag, and he used it because it was available in stock in the configuration he needed for the installation. It was quite an eye opener to see the multitude of identical speced brands manufactured by just three or four manufacturers.

As someone mentioned, the most widely accepted products in this game are the Sears/Kenmore/Kenmore Elite/Kenmore pro tags. Anyone ever seen a Sears/Kenmore manufacturing plant? Every single product they sell is manufactured by someone and branded for them, just as most all "private" brands are, from appliances to clothes.

J DoubleD FLoor

When I was young I worked for a company called MK Morse ... they manufactured any kind of saw blade you could think of ... I learned early on about private lableling from them ... next time your are buying the blades ... every brand was made by Morse .... Mikita, Dewalt, Rigid, Craftsman, Black n Decker .... They are exactly the same blade ... your just paying for the color of paint

__________________
Quality is not expensive ... It's PRICELESS !!!
www.neoflooringco.com

J DoubleD FLoor

When I was young I worked for a company called MK Morse ... they manufactured any kind of saw blade you could think of ... I learned early on about private lableling from them ... next time your are buying the blades ... every brand was made by Morse .... Mikita, Dewalt, Rigid, Craftsman, Black n Decker .... They are exactly the same blade ... you're just paying for the color of paint

__________________
Quality is not expensive ... It's PRICELESS !!!
www.neoflooringco.com

RobertCDF

They may be made by the same company but they are made to differant specs... You cant tell me the diablo blade I use in my circ saw is the same as the junk dewalts that sell next to it.

__________________
Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
Colorado Custom Decks
Custom Composite Decks

mdshunk

History of the brands:
AAON: Evolved from John Zink/Sunbeam, makes packaged rooftop equipment.
ADDISON PRODUCTS: Now a division of Heat Controller.
AIRQUEST: Name used by International Comfort Products.
AIRTEMP: Became a subsidiary of Fedders Corp. in 1976. See Fedders.
AMANA: Formerly a division of Raytheon, now part of Goodman Manufacturing.
AMERICAN FURNACE [AFCO]: In 1968 became part of the climate control division of the Singer Co. In 1970 became Singer American Furnace. See Singer.
AMERICAN-STANDARD: Became Tappan Air Conditioning division in 1972. American-Standard purchased the Trane Company in 1984. American-Standard name revived in 1988.
ARCO: Acquired by SnyderGeneral in 1984 from Atlantic Richfield. Added to Climate Control unit as Arcoaire. In 1991 became part of Inter-City Products (now International Comfort Products) with brandmate Comfortmaker. In 1999, ICP was purchased by United Technologies, parent of Carrier.
ARKLA: Division sold to Preway, Inc. Preway sold Servel gas air conditioning to the Dometic Corp. High efficiency furnace technology sold to Trane. Servel name now sold by Robur.
ARMSTRONG: Became division of the Johnson Corp. in 1976. See Magic Chef. Name revived to Armostrong Air after Lennox purchased the climate control line from Magic Chef.
BARD: Bard Manufacturing.
BOHN: A subsidiary of Lennox International.
BRYANT: A division of Carrier Corp-United Technologies.
CARRIER: A wholly owned subsidiary of United Technologies.
CENTURY: Century Engineering Corp, Cedar Rapids, purchased by Heat Controller in 1975. Century name still used by Heat Controller on products made by OEMs.
COLEMAN: Sold the HVAC products subsidiary to Beacon Intl. (Canadian) which changed its name to Evcon Industries. Evcon since purchased by York International. Products now sold as Coleman Evcon brand.
COMFORTAIRE: A tradename of Heat Controller. See Century.
COMFORTMAKER: Old AFCO name revived at founding of SnyderGeneral by former Singer HVAC boss. See Singer. Comfortmaker now owned by Inter-City Products. In 1999, ICP was purchased by United Technologies.
COMMAND-AIRE: Water source heat pump maker now owned by American-Standard.
COOLERATOR, McGRAW-EDISON: Lasted listed as making HVAC products in 1978.
CRANE: Stopped making HVAC products in 1968. Furnace technology sold to Amana.
CUMBERLAND: A brand name used by American-Standard/Trane.
DAIKIN US: Japanese company making mini splits withdrew from the US market in 1988.
DAY & NIGHT: Part of the BDP Co. division of Carrier Corp-United Technologies. Name being dropped as of late 1997.
DELCO: Old GM appliance division last listed in 1964.
DUCANE: Purchased by Lennox in 1999.
DUNHAM-BUSH: Most divisions sold to Topgroup Holdings Berhad of Malaysia.
DUOMATIC-OLSEN: Canadian maker changed name to DMO Industries with Olsen & Airco as brand names.
ELECTRIC-FURNACE-MAN: Last listed in 1979.
EUBANK: Texas manufacturer of cooling equipement, also OEM for Heat Controller.
FANDAIRE: Last A/C units manufacturered in 1962.
FASCO: Stopped making HVAC products in 1983.
FRASER-JOHNSTON: Became part of Westinghouse. Name dropped in 1978 with end of Westinghouse HVAC products. Name now used by York International.
FEDDERS: Left the unitary market around 1980. Sells window units under Fedders, Climatrol, Airtemp, Hunter, Emerson brands.
FRIEDRICH: Residential HVAC acquired by ARCO in early 80s. In 1985 became Friedrich Climate Master Inc. selling water source heat pumps. Friedrich name dropped from tradename in 1987. Friedrich HVAC products evolved into Arcoaire. Friedrich name still used on window units & mini splits after purchase of Zoneaire from ICP.
GAFFERS & SATTLER: In 1969 became a subsidiary of Magic Chef. Name no longer used.
GENERAL ELECTRIC: HVAC division purchased by the Trane Company in 1982.
GREEN COLONIAL: Des Moines company stopped making HVAC products in 1975.
HALL-NEAL FURNACE: Indianapolis company last listed in 1966.
HASTINGS: Last listed in 1964, now manufacturers unit & duct heaters.
HEIL-QUAKER: Purchased by Inter City Gas, Toronto, from Whirlpool Corp. Tempstar name added to replace Whirlpool name. HVAC division now part of International Comfort Products. In 1999, ICP was purchased by United Technologies.
HENRY FURNACE [MONCRIEF]: Purchased by Luxaire, Inc. Now part of York International.
HOME FURNACE: Became Home Furnace division, Lear-Siegler Inc. Became Miller Heating & Air Conditioning in 1986 after being acquired by Nortek Inc. Now listed as Nordyne. See Intertherm.
INTERNATIONAL HEATER: In 1965 controlling interest acquired by Weil-McLain. Became International Heating & Air Conditioning division in 1973. Last listed in 1974. Weil-McLain now owned by the Marley Company.
INTERNATIONAL OIL BURNER: Founded in St. Louis in 1919. Became Intertherm in 1969.
INTERTHERM: Became Nordyne company in 1987. Brandmate Miller. In 1998, Nordyne started marketing under White-Westinghouse brands Frigidaire, Philco, Tappan, Kelvinator & Gibson. Nordyne is OEM for Thermal Zone.
IRON FIREMAN: Now a tradename of Dunham-Bush.
ITT: Stopped making HVAC products in 1983.
JANITROL: Division of Surface Combustion Co. became division of Midland-Ross in 1960, division of Tappan in 1977. Janitrol name sold to Goodman Mfg. in 1982. Also sold as Goodman, Hamilton, Johnstone, Sears Kenmore.
JOHNSON, AIR-EASE: Became part of Magic Chef in 1972. Now owned by Lennox. Air Ease brand now part of Armstrong Air division of Lennox.
LENNOX: Lennox Industries.
LUXAIRE: Formerly a part of Westinghouse, now part of York with sister brands Moncrief, Fraser-Johnston, Home Air.
MAGIC CHEF: In 1986, Magic Chef was acquired by the Maytag Co. Air conditioning division was sold to Lennox in 1988 and renamed Armstrong Air. See Johnson.
MAYFLOWER: St. Paul furnace company last listed in 1962.
McQUAY: Formerly a division of SnyderGeneral, now owned by Hong Leong Group Malaysia. Sister division is AAF International.
MILLER: Was Miller the Home Furnace Company started in 1916. Now part of Nordyne with brandmate Intertherm.
MITCHELL: Last listed in 1958.
MONCRIEF: Division of York International. See Luxaire.
MUELLER CLIMATROL: In 1964 became Climatrol Div. Worthington Air Conditioning. Eventually bought out by Fedders. See Worthington and Fedders.
NATIONAL U.S. RADIATOR (Capitolaire): Acquired by Crane in 1960.
NESBITT: Acquired by ITT in 1963. Divested by ITT in 1979 and filed for bankrupcy in 1980. Now a tradename of Mechanical Specialties, Inc.
NIAGRA: Acquired by Rybolt in 1961.
OLSEN: In 1965 became Luxaire, Inc. with brand names Luxaire & Moncrief. Acquired by Westinghouse then sold to York Div. Borg-Warner in 1981. Olsen name no longer in use by York.
ONEIDA-ROYAL: Purchased by Utica Boilers Inc. in 1990.
PAYNE: A division of Carrier Corp-United Technologies. The name is used on the very low end line of Carrier equipment.
PEERLESS: In 1964 became Peerless Division, Space Conditioning Systems. Eventually acquired by Dunham-Bush with names dropped in mid 1970s.
PEERLESS HEATER: Boiler manufacturer since 1908.
PERFECTION: Became Perfection Division, Hupp Industries in 1964. In 1965, Perfection name dropped. Later known as Typhoon Div, Hupp Industries. Hupp in bankrupcy in 1991.
RHEEM: Rheem Manufacturing is owned by Japanese water heater manufacturer Paloma.
ROUND OAK: Last listed in 1963. See Peerless.
RUUD: Part of Rheem Manufacturing. See Rheem.
RYBOLT: Last listed in 1973.
SILENT AUTOMATIC: Last listed in 1961. See Iron Fireman.
SINGER: In 1982 became climate control unit of SnyderGeneral Corp. with name dropped. In 1984 SnyderGeneral operations included Arcoaire, Comfortmaker, McQuay. In 1988 SynderGeneral bought American Air Filter. In 1991, sold Arcoaire & Comfortmaker to Inter-City Products.
SOUTHWEST MFG: Became Heatwave International in 1984, later going bankrupt.
SPACE CONDITIONER: Became Dunham-Bush division in 1968.
SQUARE D: Production resumed as Sun Dial Manufacturing then stopped in the 1980s.
STEWART-WARNER: Last listed in 1976.
TAPPAN: Became SJC Corp. in 1979 with name Frigiking Tappan. In 1982, SJC sold Janitrol line to Goodman Mfg. Tappan name revived by Nordyne in 1998 under license from White-Westinghouse.
TRANE: The Trane Company purchased GE's climate control division in 1982. Trane was purchased by American-Standard in 1984.
TORRIDHEET: Last listed in 1972.
WATERBURY: Last listed in 1962.
WEATHERKING: Former trade name of Addison Products, sold to Rheem in 1989.
WESTINGHOUSE: In 1981, sold to Borg-Warner [York}. Sale rights included names Moncrief, Luxaire, Fraser-Johnston all now used by York International.
WHIRLPOOL: In 1972 became Whirlpool Div. of Heil-Quaker, a subsidiary of Whirlpool Corp. Tempstar name replaced Whirlpool after Inter-City Gas Co. bought Heil-Quaker in 1986. See Heil-Quaker.
WILLIAMS OIL-O-MATIC: Last listed in 1972.
WILLIAMSON: Purchased by Hupp Industries which went bankrupt in 1991. Williamson name was purchased by Metzger Machine (Milwaukee Thermoflo) and used on furnace line. Late 1999, purchased by United Dominion (Weil-McLain's parent)
WORTHINGTON: Became Mueller Climatrol in 1970 after being acquired by Fedders. YORK: Formerly a dvision of Borg-Warner, York International is now spun off. York also makes Fraser-Johnson, Luxaire, Moncrief, Winchester, Coleman-Evcon, AirPro

http://toad.net/~jsmeenen/history.html

J DoubleD FLoor

No this is only for recips, jigs, holesaws and bandsaw blades

__________________
Quality is not expensive ... It's PRICELESS !!!
www.neoflooringco.com

Ed the Roofer

MD,

That is really a great and useful link you posted, especially if you go to the main site page and look up other things.

My central A/C i acting up and this will be a good help guide for diagnosis.

Thanks,

Ed