Design Fees....

ruskent

I am a design build company.

This is how i normally do things. I get the lead. I met with the people and find out their needs, wants and desires. I tell them it will cost x for a plan. Then my LA draws it up. The like the plan and give me the okay. Then i make countless trips there to talk about the details, pick material, etc, etc, etc.


Last night i was reading a remodeling magazine. All these companies were saying they charge 5-7% of the total job as a design fee. That sould like a good idea.


So now i want to do that. I figure i deserve the money. So now when ever we get to the point of typing up the contract, i'll just have my last item listed as 5% design fee. Customers will be aware of this fee at the start of the entire process. I bet i'll get the money no proablem. Then i can get a new esclade on 24s!


You think it will fly? Seems like my average job next year will be around 200k. My LA fees normally run between 3-4k for a job that size. So i would put a extra 6k in my pocket. I normally meet with people 5-6 times for a project this site. After drive time, and estimate time, i proably have 60 hours invested into each project. So i am making 100 bucks a hour, which seems fair.

dirt diggler

Rusk, if i'm wanting a patio, etc - why don't i just go to the LA and then give the plans to you ... for you to give me a proposal?

KentWhitten

Now you're thinking like a builder! First, what's an LA? I assume it's an architect of some type, not sure what the "l" stands for(edit : landscape architect.....DOH!). Just be aware that the percentage that they quote is only for builder type plans. they are generic and still have to (or should) have extra work still to do. Architects on average can be anywhere between 5%, but mostly to 15%. My design fee is roughly around 5-7%, but mine are total, with structural stamps, framing plans, site plans, etc. A house the size of 3K sf would be about 20-25 sheets with all the details, and if it's a custom home, it can be anywhere in the ballpark of $2K-$6K...all depending on what you ask for.

And be careful of that particular point...what YOU ask for. Some people take advantage of the gray areas. You don't ask for something, then you find out later, you need something...well, that's gonna cost you...alot.

It's a common way that builders start to use. If it's a custom, then the price will be high. If it's a spec, then you can certainly get a bargain. Let the designer/architect take the responsibility of design. If something is haywire, then you can point the finger at the designer.

The software I use, and I know Cole uses a similar type, is a modeling program and it makes it almost impossible to have an error IF you build your model correctly. Your elevations are correct as they are drawn. You see some plans have small errors that can become big, big PIA's.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

finehomes

What software are you using Framerman????


Sam

WNYcarpenter

I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about, but I'd be thinking more along the lines of hiring a LA fresh out of school whom you could mold, or offer an internship to a student who could draw your plans in-house. Consult with your new in-house designer, explain what you want, and let him/her meet with the client over and over and still have control over the design. You could then charge the architect fees along with design fees, save yourself the driving back and forth, and spend that time landing new jobs.

IMO the successful contractor is the guy who gets to the office at 9:30...reads the paper, chats on CT, has however many people working for him and is focused on keeping the work coming in.

KentWhitten

I use Revit and Cole uses ArchiCAD, both BIM's. You model your building and all views fall into place rather than draw lines. The benefit is true representation of your design and 3d to boot. I export to 3ds MAX and can render some pretty good 3d views.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

ruskent

Regardless of who meets with the client, there are still ALOT of meetings on a 200k job, even after we have the plan. I just want to make sure i am charging for that time and not just adding a little pit of $ here and there in the bid to make up for it.

I really think its my meetings with the clients that makes them fall in love with me. My customers seem to really like and trust me, and honestly i think its because of the time i spend with them during the design phase. I am not ready to hire this out yet. Picking materials is one of the most important parts of the entire job. Another company can do a job off the same plan as mine, and it would not turn out as well.

I do think i need to start to look for a student going to school for LA to work with. I am looking at what i have for my LA to do in the next 2 months and its over 10k in plans. I hate having to wait 3 weeks for plans.

Matt

finehomes

Not really familiar with either of those. I use softplan. I occassionally see threads like this one pop up and see numbers like this and wonder what kind of people pay that kind of money for design fees???? Around here...I can get any draftsman around to design custom homes for under a buck a foot including unfinished basements. The buck a foot price is just for the finished s/f. No engineering included in that price...but that's a pretty complete set of plans...ready to go to the city for permits. Usually about 10-12 pages.

The draftsman I used before I started doing my own could do a pretty average 2,000 s/f home in 3-5 days.....$2,000 a week aint so bad!!!!.


Sam

ruskent

What about the rest of the design of the house? Doors, trim, windows, cabinets, tile, etc, etc, etc. Once you have the blue prints of the house, theire are is still alot of time spend on design, right??

KentWhitten

Yeah, I did the softplan thing. Wasted my money in my opinion. Revit is an Autodesk product. Softplan I guess would be considered BIM also, but the version I used (11) was not very good, again, just my opinion. Many people use it obviously, just not fitting my needs.

Those are builder plans you are talking about...permit sets in my lingo. An average home, yes I could do for a buck a sf, but not many details. Too many fish in that sea to make a living anymore. I am trying my best to nudge into the architects market. Not too receptive LOL.

Someone coming out of school is not an architect. They still don't have the qualifications needed for a full architect. So basically, you will have an educated draftsman who has not stepped foot onto a jobsite....IMO. Most, not all, architects really don't have a full understanding of what we actually need in the field. To sculpt someone is good...if you have time. It's just like any employee.

There's nothing wrong with hiring a designer or architect for this need. You don't need him on hand, just like any other sub. It's all how you handle it or how you want to handle it. If you want the guy next to you...great. Hire him. I'm just saying it's not necessary. Don't like the sub? Find another one.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

KillerToiletSpider

I charge a pipe layout charge with every bid, if we get the job, the 8% is added to the job, if we don't get the job I offer to sell the homeowner the layout for $2,000.00. Most of the buildings we work in will require our competition to buy my layout.

__________________
A flush is better than a full house.

ruskent

Hey COLE, your a D/B company right? What do you think?

Mike Finley

I don't know. I saw a show on TV where the customer has 3 landscapers each do a full on color, blown out beautiful design and then have a meeting with the customer where the customer gets to sit down an go "oooooh.... ahhhhhhh... what do you think honey?" and she goes "ooooooh... ahhhhhhh...."

Then they pick one and the all get together and become lifelong friends as they get the backyard of their dreams...

It all seems so lovely to me. Like a dream where you are running in slow motion and someone is chasing you with a chain saw.

dirt diggler

wrong - you will save they money while your living expenses are low.




as D/B - your company IS the designer and builder. You ARE the designer whether or not you utilize a LA or not.

remodel123

There is a way to build on the desing fee idea. Break the design fee into 3 phases. I used to ask for an initial fee to cover a conceptual design. I would meet the client with an architect, and let the client know that this initial visit would cost $400 to $600 (enough to cover all my costs plus a little extra). At the end of the first visit, I would set a time for the architect and I to come back with some initial conceptual drawings for review. At this point, the client is only responsible for a small amount of money, and someone is working on their plan. After I get that initial check, I have effectively taken them off the market, because they are not going to do this with more than 1 company.

When I return, we review the conceptual drawings (not scaled) with the client to see if we captured some ideas that they want to develop. If they like what they see, there is an additional fee to integrate these initial ideas into quarter-inch scale drawings. If they don't like what we have done, there is no further commitment, and all the client is out is $400 to $600. If they like what they see, they now pay an additional fee to take it to the next level. The next level costs more, because we are now working on the actual design. Again, we only go to phase 2 if they are happy with phase 1.

After returning with phase 2 drawings, and reviewing the quarter-inch scale plans, we can start working on specific project specs that will make up all the interior and exterior finishes. However, to go into product selection is part of phase 3, and there is another fee (the largest) to help them with product selection and to make the plans permit ready.

This 3 payment plan works well because the client only pays when they are satisfied with each phase, and want to move forward. In this way, they pay as they go, and each phase gives them more for their money. It takes the uncertainty away for potential customers, and let's you build value as you work with them.

I have received several thousands for the design process by following this 3 payment procedure.

__________________
David Lupberger

ruskent

Thats it buddy! Thanks so much. I just need to tweak it to fit my business and it should work like a charm!