Demand for Concrete Countertops - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

dirt diggler · 11-23-2008, 01:08 PM

After seeing pictures of work from some of you all that do concrete countertops (6String, Gene - very nice work guys!) - I developed an interest in them. I like granite countertops too - but the concrete variety adds a bit of character & artsy-ness.

So much that to the point, I'm thinking of trying this out as a hobby and for personal use. I just think it'd be really fun.

However, the capitalist side of me has to wonder - what is the demand for these? And how much do I charge per square foot (JUST KIDDING

)

No, but seriously, I've never seen these in cookie-cutter homes - I would think you typically only see them in custom homes.

Just seems like a really neat little niche ....

**genecarp** · 11-23-2008, 01:35 PM

Dirt, i have found here, in the northeast, concrete is primarily used on higher end projects, def not in cookie cutter developments. I think, {not sure} they are more popular, across the board out west. It is a good little niche, try one out for yourself, i will tell you it is much more involved than most people think. To produce a HIGH QUALITY TOP, there are many things to consider that would surprise most people.

Countertop production also takes up a fair amount of shop space, and getsMESSY .

neolitic · 11-23-2008, 01:48 PM

If Dirt gets POed over me muddying up
his thread I'll start another, but I've
been meaning to ask our concrete top
gurus about cast in place.
Current HO has decided to do his own
outdoor kitchen design.
Hired an old mason to do the brick work.
Between the two of them they decided
to do a cast in place counter top....
like ready to pour in early to mid December.
Weather aside, is this as stupid as I think?
Do you normally cast them right side up
in the form?
I have washed my hands of the whole
kitchen part of this, but who can resist
watching a slow motion train wreck?

Bodger · 11-23-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt diggler

After seeing pictures of work from some of you all that do concrete countertops (6String, Gene - very nice work guys!) - I developed an interest in them. I like granite countertops too - but the concrete variety adds a bit of character & artsy-ness.

So much that to the point, I'm thinking of trying this out as a hobby and for personal use. I just think it'd be really fun.

However, the capitalist side of me has to wonder - what is the demand for these? And how much do I charge per square foot (JUST KIDDING

)

No, but seriously, I've never seen these in cookie-cutter homes - I would think you typically only see them in custom homes.

Just seems like a really neat little niche ....

Hey Dirt
I did a bath remodel about five years ago and the HO's adult son decided to take a stab at doing the countertops in a tinted concrete. He went and bought a book by some Japanese man who at the time was considered the leading artiste in the field.

Needless to say, the kid screwed the pooch and the whole thing had to be ripped out. It was the forms and pouring in place that tipped him over, literally.

I have since hired a couple of qualified guys to do these types of countertops, and they do come out beautifully if done correctly. Right now we're doing about 15 feet of them for an outdoor deck and barbecue combo.

Seems like a good moneymaker for custom homes out here in LALA Land. And with the right knowledge and gear, it looks like a reasonable enough learning curve to be a profitable addition to a good tradesman's repetoir.
I haven't done it myself, so that's just an observer's viewpoint. My current contractor for this has told me that the tinting part of it can be tricky, and if the color isn't right, there's not much re-course.

Bodger · 11-23-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

If Dirt gets POed over me muddying up
his thread I'll start another, but I've
been meaning to ask our concrete top
gurus about cast in place.
Current HO has decided to do his own
outdoor kitchen design.
Hired an old mason to do the brick work.
Between the two of them they decided
to do a cast in place counter top....
like ready to pour in early to mid December.
Weather aside, is this as stupid as I think?
Do you normally cast them right side up
in the form?
I have washed my hands of the whole
kitchen part of this, but who can resist
watching a slow motion train wreck?

The ones I've seen have had forms built right on the countertop space and they pour and finish and demo the forms out just like a sidewalk. Don't know if that's then best method or not.

Bodger · 11-23-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt diggler

After seeing pictures of work from some of you all that do concrete countertops (6String, Gene - very nice work guys!) - I developed an interest in them. I like granite countertops too - but the concrete variety adds a bit of character & artsy-ness.

So much that to the point, I'm thinking of trying this out as a hobby and for personal use. I just think it'd be really fun.

However, the capitalist side of me has to wonder - what is the demand for these? And how much do I charge per square foot (JUST KIDDING

)

No, but seriously, I've never seen these in cookie-cutter homes - I would think you typically only see them in custom homes.

Just seems like a really neat little niche ....

Here's a book on the subject that, based on the description on Amazon, is set forth in pretty straight talk: Cast-In-Place Concrete Countertops:A Guide for the Craftsman by Tom Ralston

Also, for the conceptual high end artistry view: Concrete Countertops, Design, Form and Finishing for the New Kitchen and Bath by Fu-Tung Cheng and Eric Olsen.
Amazon has these books.

I have seen prices of $125 to $150 a square foot depending on the size and complexity of the job.

Good luck.

**genecarp** · 11-23-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

If Dirt gets POed over me muddying up
his thread I'll start another, but I've
been meaning to ask our concrete top
gurus about cast in place.
Current HO has decided to do his own
outdoor kitchen design.
Hired an old mason to do the brick work.
Between the two of them they decided
to do a cast in place counter top....
like ready to pour in early to mid December.
Weather aside, is this as stupid as I think?
Do you normally cast them right side up
in the form?
I have washed my hands of the whole
kitchen part of this, but who can resist
watching a slow motion train wreck?

Neo, cast in place is an acceptable practice, if the client is not expecting anything to special, and the mason is a pro, they will probably end up with a basic concrete top. As you mentioned the weather thing is just asking for trouble. If i where a gambling man, i would put my $ on a crack. We have done CIP, large interior kitchens, TEMPERATURE CONTROL, different situation. For what you are describing, i would pour it in my shop, keep it cozy for 3 weeks, then install. G

**genecarp** · 11-23-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodger

I have seen prices of $125 to $150 a square foot depending on the size and complexity of the job.

Good luck.

B, we can turn out very basic jobs for under $100 sqft, High end $165 sqft. G

neolitic · 11-23-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genecarp

Neo, cast in place is an acceptable practice, if the client is not expecting anything to special, and the mason is a pro, they will probably end up with a basic concrete top. As you mentioned the weather thing is just asking for trouble. If i where a gambling man, i would put my $ on a crack. We have done CIP, large interior kitchens, TEMPERATURE CONTROL, different situation. For what you are describing, i would pour it in my shop, keep it cozy for 3 weeks, then install. G

His current "plan" is to tent it,
half over my new deck,
and put a sally in there.

Kinda doubt he'll cure it three weeks,
and 100% sure he's never tried this
before in any weather.
Gonna be hard not saying "I told
you so" when I come back to stain the deck.

dirt diggler · 11-23-2008, 09:31 PM

The tent(ing) should work - but why not wait a couple months til spring ...

Neo, keep us up to date on the job - if nothing else, just for the sake of what does sound like an inevitable slow motion train wreck

BTW Neo - do you have a "hands clean" liability clause in your contract in case this jacka@@ makes a mess of your deck??

I would think the best way, as Gene says - keep it in the shop. Why not control your working environment for once.

Also - if poured in place .... I would think it'd be difficult to finish underneath the overhang ... you'd essentially have to strip the forms at just the right time.

Not to mention, the risk of making a mess in a new kitchen.

Heck, and let's not ever underestimate the benefit of working at home

I dunno - these things just strike my muse. I may try learnin this

neolitic · 11-23-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt diggler

The tent(ing) should work - but why not wait a couple months til spring ...

Neo, keep us up to date on the job - if nothing else, just for the sake of what does sound like an inevitable slow motion train wreck

Roger that.

BTW Neo - do you have a "hands clean" liability clause in your contract in case this jacka@@ makes a mess of your deck??

This has been made abundantly clear,
and it will be in writing with the final
billing.
I will be paid out before this clown
starts the top.
Staining is a separate contract, and
likely won't happen 'til spring.

I would think the best way, as Gene says - keep it in the shop. Why not control your working environment for once.

Also - if poured in place .... I would think it'd be difficult to finish underneath the overhang ... you'd essentially have to strip the forms at just the right time.

Not to mention, the risk of making a mess in a new kitchen.

Heck, and let's not ever underestimate the benefit of working at home

My main ambition in life
at this point.

I dunno - these things just strike my muse. I may try learnin this

Glad you ain't p***ed about the hijack.

At my age if one lets
an opportunity pass.......

dirt diggler · 11-23-2008, 09:55 PM

shoot - me get mad? At a thread-hijack?? That would be like a circus clown condemning the use of helium for recreational purposes

actually, seriously though - yeah, make sure you're free & clear of this nutcase. I can't imagine something like that turning out right the first time. Just the sheer factor of making a mess is enough to send chills.

Welp, I'm gonna go um ... hmm... welp ... do nothing

**genecarp** · 11-23-2008, 10:16 PM

[quote=dirt diggler;541542]The tent(ing) should work - but why not wait a couple months til spring

Also - if poured in place .... I would think it'd be difficult to finish underneath the overhang ... you'd essentially have to strip the forms at just the right time.

Dirt, the overhangs are actually the easiest part, the underside of the overhang would be supported during the forming with a piece of mellamine, the smooth finish will be transfered to the concrete, and revealed after stripping the forms. G

dirt diggler · 11-23-2008, 11:46 PM

ah! figured it'd have to be something like that.

anyways, im excited. Not sure when I'll really sit down and take the time to think this through more --- but always nice to have a new hobby at least.

6stringmason · 11-24-2008, 08:15 AM

Dirt, they are fun to do, thats for sure. But like Gene said, there are ALOT of variables and know how into turning a piece of concrete into a nice shiny countertop.

Prefab is definitely the way to go to cut the most customization out of your piece. But like Gene said again, it gets messy.

Most of my clients have been in upper end homes, but once in awhile you'll get a client that is in a modest $170-225k home who wants something different. Or someone doing a remodel.

Good luck. Just have fun with it. Its only concrete... its cheap.

dirt diggler · 11-24-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6stringmason

Good luck. Just have fun with it. Its only concrete... its cheap.

lol, yeah ...

nah, honestly, it really is something that i just wanna do for fun. Be nice to do something for fun - for once