crown molding, could use a little help... - Page 2 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Chris G · 11-02-2009, 05:19 PM

A dremel tool, (or even a $10 knock off) can be handy for coping. If you're using MDF, it's a bloody riot actually. Also, these might be handy, Never used them, but I cam across them at Lee Valley.

thom · 11-02-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NormW

When you cope your corners try putting the blade in your coping saw, backwards... Try coping by cutting on the pull stroke,

Sorry norm, coping saws are designed for cutting on the pull stroke. Apparently you were putting your blades in backwards all along until you made that magic discovery that coping saws cut better on the pull stroke.

katoman · 11-02-2009, 05:21 PM

I also cut crown laying flat. Once you figure out the settings. They are premarked on some chop saws, it's easy.

As mentioned, this is the way to go with large profile crowns.

Inner10 · 11-02-2009, 05:27 PM

Gus, thank you for the informative post, it will come in handy when I finish my kitchen reno (which at this rate will be 2020).

What kind of saw is that anyway?

neolitic · 11-02-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner10

Gus, thank you for the informative post, it will come in handy when I finish my kitchen reno (which at this rate will be 2020).

What kind of saw is that anyway?

Ferrari $$$

J F · 11-02-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulie

Whatever happend to balsa wood, I haven't heard that for years.

They used it all up on those toy airplanes we had as kids.

J F · 11-02-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

Ferrari $$$

Nah, it's gotta be more expensive than that...

**Gus Dering** · 11-02-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner10

Gus, thank you for the informative post, it will come in handy when I finish my kitchen reno (which at this rate will be 2020).

What kind of saw is that anyway?

You are welcome

This is the saw

http://www.omgainc.com/productfamily...ub_id=0&pid=11

It is like having a Uni-saw mounted on a pivot arm. No run out or vibration at all. It's real sweet for a stationary saw. I think it was about $2500.

WarnerConstInc. · 11-02-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gus Dering

That Kapex may seem spendy until you take a look at that little Italian fox of a saw in that post up there ^^^

Although I wouldn't want to carry it from where it is to the truck with out help from two young studs while I watched and cheered them on.

Ohhhhh, I like the Omga's. That is a man's machine right there.

I have had the fortunate pleasure of logging quite a bit of time with one of those.

Why does every other country know how to make nice tools but, we can't seem to pull it off anymore?

J F · 11-02-2009, 06:40 PM

because americans want cheap-cheap-cheap...no matter the cost

**Gus Dering** · 11-02-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc.

Ohhhhh, I like the Omga's. That is a man's machine right there.

I have had the fortunate pleasure of logging quite a bit of time with one of those.

Why does every other country know how to make nice tools but, we can't seem to pull it off anymore?

Well there is the CTD saw. It appears you can get one free if you buy this Tiger Stop set up. These saws are made in beautiful downtown Los Angeles.

But they need a lesson in how to look sexy. The Italians have it all over them there.

http://www.tigerstop.com/WCM8B/

I would like to have a Tiger Stop. Why does everything I want cost so friggin much?

NormW · 11-02-2009, 07:16 PM

Thanks Thom,

Cutting on the pull stroke with a coping saw to me, is the right way. I've seen most guys, new to coping, using the blade so that it cuts on the push. Common mistake around here.

I did a house with a timber framer, who showed me how to back cut the crown with a chop saw. After filling with a 4 in 1, his joints were the best on the job. (surprising use of power tools by him, since he hand made thousands of pegs for the job).

The other two carpenters coped on the push stroke, and there was no changin' it. Note: we're all in our 40s, so "hardening of the mind" has set in.

Cdat · 11-02-2009, 08:35 PM

To the op, there are videos on this subject if you google it.

JumboJack · 11-02-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cdat

To the op, there are videos on this subject if you google it.

Or (and i'm just thinking outside the box here) one could practice and learn on their own home before posing as a professional and charging people money to do something they don't know how to do....wow,that was a mouthful

freemason21 · 11-02-2009, 08:42 PM

thanks for all the input guys and especially to you gus for the pics. looks like im gonna have to practice a bunch with the scraps i have. the big problem i had today was doing an outside corner. i might just take it down and start over. its my house i can screw up 100 times if i want to.

Resta · 11-02-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris G

A dremel tool, (or even a $10 knock off) can be handy for coping. If you're using MDF, it's a bloody riot actually. Also, these might be handy, Never used them, but I cam across them at Lee Valley.

You don't need this, it's enough to drive a nail or two

Willie T · 11-02-2009, 09:07 PM

Forget trying to manage the tilted 'compound' bevel on a miter saw. Besides the fact that you don't need to bother with it at all, very few walls are square enough in all the planes involved at a corner to make any of those numbers work much of the time. You will end up with much beter work if you cope your inside corners and cut your molding "UPSIDE DOWN, AND BACKWARD" with nothing but a 45 (more or less, depending on how bad the corner was built) angle on the saw for all cuts.

Just remember that phrase,"UPSIDE DOWN, AND BACKWARD" and you will soon begin to see how it works.........

You always put your molding on the saw table....... "UPSIDE DOWN".

And you simply remember to turn your saw the direction shown in the pictures I show below for each of the desired cuts, and place your molding on the saw table "BACKWARD". In other words, if you want to cut a piece for the right side, you place the wood on the left of the saw blade. If you want to cut a piece for the left side, you place the wood on the right side of the saw blade.

Why all this "UPSIDE DOWN, AND BACKWARD" craziness? Well, think about it.

You are installing molding against the intersection of your wall and your ceiling. Those two planes (or surfaces) create a 90 degree angle when they meet. That's pretty simple. You can look right up there and see that.

Well, the table and the backing fence of your miter saw also create a 90 degree angle where they meet. Think of the fence (the upright part) as your wall surface... and the table of the saw as your ceiling. That's cool. You can look at the saw and see that, too. That's all well and good. You need a 90 degree setup like that to help align the molding. But here comes the aggravating part.

Because of the fact that a miter saw happens to have its blade mounted ABOVE the table you're cutting upon, it cuts the molding the opposite of what you need for it to install properly up there on your ceiling.

Envision this: If it were possible for you to lie on your back like Michelangelo did to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel... and if you could bolt your saw, upside down, directly onto the ceiling... then you could make all your cuts just like they look like they need to be cut. Because the saw would then be oriented along the same plane as the ceiling. But that's a huge hassle. And totally ridiculous to even attempt.

So... you just need to keep remembering that you are, in effect, doing everything in reverse. Because of the saw being on the floor, and not the ceiling, the molding is actually being prepared in reverse, (until you turn the cut piece of molding over and lift it up into place on the ceiling), so all your cuts are going to also have to be done in reverse.

I know it doesn't seem to make any sense right now, but as you read through this a few more times ... slowly... it will begin to come into focus.

...........................Inside Left ........................................... Inside Right .................................Outside Left .............................Outside Right
Attached Images

freemason21 · 11-02-2009, 09:18 PM

well after doing a few practice cuts (mind you at 9pm ha), i seem to be doing much better. thank you very much gus!! the pictures made it really easy to understand. and to everyone else's input.

freemason21 · 11-02-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie T

Forget trying to manage the tilted 'compound' bevel on a miter saw. Besides the fact that you don't need to bother with it at all, very few walls are square enough in all the planes involved at a corner to make any of those numbers work much of the time. You will end up with much beter work if you cope your inside corners and cut your molding "UPSIDE DOWN, AND BACKWARD" with nothing but a 45 (more or less, depending on how bad the corner was built) angle on the saw for all cuts.

Just remember that phrase,"UPSIDE DOWN, AND BACKWARD" and you will soon begin to see how it works.........

You always put your molding on the saw table....... "UPSIDE DOWN".

And you simply remember to turn your saw the direction shown in the pictures I show below for each of the desired cuts, and place your molding on the saw table "BACKWARD". In other words, if you want to cut a piece for the right side, you place the wood on the left of the saw blade. If you want to cut a piece for the left side, you place the wood on the right side of the saw blade.

Why all this "UPSIDE DOWN, AND BACKWARD" craziness? Well, think about it.

You are installing molding against the intersection of your wall and your ceiling. Those two planes (or surfaces) create a 90 degree angle when they meet. That's pretty simple. You can look right up there and see that.

Well, the table and the backing fence of your miter saw also create a 90 degree angle where they meet. Think of the fence (the upright part) as your wall surface... and the table of the saw as your ceiling. That's cool. You can look at the saw and see that, too. That's all well and good. You need a 90 degree setup like that to help align the molding. But here comes the aggravating part.

Because of the fact that a miter saw happens to have its blade mounted ABOVE the table you're cutting upon, it cuts the molding the opposite of what you need for it to install properly up there on your ceiling.

Envision this: If it were possible for you to lie on your back like Michelangelo did to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel... and if you could bolt your saw, upside down, directly onto the ceiling... then you could make all your cuts just like they look like they need to be cut. Because the saw would then be oriented along the same plane as the ceiling. But that's a huge hassle. And totally ridiculous to even attempt.

So... you just need to keep remembering that you are, in effect, doing everything in reverse. Because of the saw being on the floor, and not the ceiling, the molding is actually being prepared in reverse, (until you turn the cut piece of molding over and lift it up into place on the ceiling), so all your cuts are going to also have to be done in reverse.

I know it doesn't seem to make any sense right now, but as you read through this a few more times ... slowly... it will begin to come into focus.

...........................Inside Left ........................................... Inside Right .................................Outside Left .............................Outside Right
Attached Images

wow thanks willie i have these pictures saved now along with gus's. very much appreciated

naptown CR · 11-02-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

Am I the only one who uses the pre-set stops on a miter saw and lays the crown flat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert0168

Nah, I'm with ya on that one.

I have done it both ways, U & B on small stuff but flat on larger crown.

There are two things that are very important that no one here mentioned except maybe Gus.
1- set crwon stops so you are cutting a constant spring angle. Even if the angle is slightly off you can compensate for it in the miters and copes. If the spring angle is off from piece to piece you will have a very hard time making things match up.
2- When you are installing and nailing never nail the last 3-4' from a corner until you have the next piece cut and positioned how the corner works out. This will allow you to adjust the spring angle to make the outside corner or cope fit perfectly bu mving the crown up or down on the wall till the corner is perfect. Then do the final nailing.