Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?

 
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:36 PM   #21
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


I am in commercial. In California, in sure all the states, you rarely get anything up front. You have to wait a month to bill for your work, and then wait for the owner to pay the gc and the gc to pay you. You really only need capital for labor, since you don't have to pay for the material right away. My suppliers give us 30 day done 60 to pay invoices.

In this situation I do have a contract signed but we have not set foot in the jobsite yet. I was told to order the material ASAP to avoid delaying the project schedule, but the job got pushed back for months. My 30 day perio was due so I had to pay out of pocket. The gc just told me to hold on to the material and that I can't invoice him for material since we did not use it on the job yet. It's been 6 months how long do I have to wait. Contract does not really cover this since I am sure it does not happen much.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:46 PM   #22
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


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Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
I've been stuck with so much crap over the years because I got excited I thought I had a job then had it fall apart. No cash or contract it doesn't get ordered.

As for your situation I don't know...
A job is irrelevant till I have a deposit and contract.

Do you commercial guys make enough money to justify the problems/slow pay?
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:52 PM   #23
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Look through the threads on contracts. Lots of info on just this kind of situation. It does happen all the time. Even if it didn't, you should have it in your contract anyway. Heck, after one thread, I put a no pet-sitting clause in my contract. Just in case.

What do you do if the GC decides not to do the project. After 6 months, that usually means that there is a hold up somewhere, usually money related and in my admittedly limited experience with commercial work, it may not go. If it does, it may have a change of scope, which may make the materials you have useless or obsolete for the new scope.

I don't know if 5,000 dollars worth of material is a big deal to you or not, but to me it would be a large hit. One that would put me under in the present economy. If you are of a size that 5,000 dollars won't hurt you much, you can probably afford a lawyer to help you make a good and solid contract that spells out your steps in these situations.

You have essentially funded the GC's ability to start the job at his pleasure. I just wonder how eager he would be to do that , if he had to hold on to 5,000 dollars worth of material for an indefinite time.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:52 PM   #24
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


I'm finishing a 300k job and approaching 50 % profit.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:00 PM   #25
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


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VinylHanger...why are you bonding a job as a sub-contractor? That's the GC's job, I've only had one GC ask me to bond...I asked him where his money was? I didn't bid that job
Sorry, I didn't see this.

Like was said, most large jobs want a performance bond that IIRC, costs about 10 percent of your cost. Better credit, more assets, less cost but still expensive. This lets the GC know that you won't pull the bid out from under him after he sends his numbers in, as well as getting the job done for the price specified.

These are on large jobs. 100,000-1,000,000 dollar types. The last company I worked for did these types of jobs, so my explanation may not be exact, but pretty much sums it up. They are way above my lowly station these days. And for now, happily so.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:02 PM   #26
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


in my experience you can submit anything you want..initally you are just giving a proposal/estimate...

if they accept they come back with a PO for the job...my paperwork was usually worth crap on commercial work..

especially if they used AIA guidelines and forms.

you can bill them for anything you want..doesn't mean they are going to pay..which you obviously found out.

I see no recourse for you without any of the aforementioned..
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:04 PM   #27
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
I've been stuck with so much crap over the years because I got excited I thought I had a job then had it fall apart. No cash or contract it doesn't get ordered.

As for your situation I don't know...
People wonder why I have them pay for special order glass or mirrors when it "isn't that much money". I just show them the stack of special order stuff on my racks. After a while it turns into a lot of money.

If it is something that I know I'll use any way I may let it go, but if it isn't I don't want to pay for it in any way shape or form. Special orders from other stores make me pay up front usually, so it is no different.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:06 PM   #28
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


and not to be argumentative, but you can absolutely get money upfront and progress payments..

if materials are exorbitant, special order etc..they will pay required deposits..
and progress..

i did a 75,000 commercial job once...got 19000 upfront..got another 19000 when materials came in.. ad got payments after phases of our work relatively quickly.

I have been on the other side of the spectrum too..had 105 retainers..waited 60 days etc..but i never worked for those people again..

just because you're small doesn't mean they wont work with you and help you do the job..if they believe in your competence and like your price..they will
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:08 PM   #29
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Quote:
Originally Posted by peter555
I am in commercial. In California, in sure all the states, you rarely get anything up front. You have to wait a month to bill for your work, and then wait for the owner to pay the gc and the gc to pay you. You really only need capital for labor, since you don't have to pay for the material right away. My suppliers give us 30 day done 60 to pay invoices.

In this situation I do have a contract signed but we have not set foot in the jobsite yet. I was told to order the material ASAP to avoid delaying the project schedule, but the job got pushed back for months. My 30 day perio was due so I had to pay out of pocket. The gc just told me to hold on to the material and that I can't invoice him for material since we did not use it on the job yet. It's been 6 months how long do I have to wait. Contract does not really cover this since I am sure it does not happen much.
Your subcontract should tie in the AIA A201 General Conditions of the project specs (at least when I write one up they do.) Somewhere in there is a clause for delays and costs incurred relating to such. Again, if youve got the proof that the GC made you order the material, then you've got every right to bill it. As the GC if I intended to start a project and ordered materials, and the client delays, I'd be billing them citing that General Conditions clause.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #30
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Quote:
Originally Posted by peter555 View Post
I am in commercial. In California, in sure all the states, you rarely get anything up front. You have to wait a month to bill for your work, and then wait for the owner to pay the gc and the gc to pay you. You really only need capital for labor, since you don't have to pay for the material right away. My suppliers give us 30 day done 60 to pay invoices.

In this situation I do have a contract signed but we have not set foot in the jobsite yet. I was told to order the material ASAP to avoid delaying the project schedule, but the job got pushed back for months. My 30 day perio was due so I had to pay out of pocket. The gc just told me to hold on to the material and that I can't invoice him for material since we did not use it on the job yet. It's been 6 months how long do I have to wait. Contract does not really cover this since I am sure it does not happen much.
So the GC told you to order the materials, told you to hold the materials and told you he wasn't going to pay you for the materials.

How is that working out for you? He is running your business.

On a side note, why haven't you been using this material on other projects for the past few months? This is drywall & joint compound?
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:47 AM   #31
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Why not just return it, pay the restocking charge and delivery?

50% of your money and room in your yard is better than what you have now, call it a lesson learned (as all of us have done) and when the GC calls and is ready to sign, tell him the quote is no longer valid, the new amount is the original plus your 50% loss as above
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:05 PM   #32
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger

So the GC told you to order the materials, told you to hold the materials and told you he wasn't going to pay you for the materials.

How is that working out for you? He is running your business.

On a side note, why haven't you been using this material on other projects for the past few months? This is drywall & joint compound?
Because I didn't order joint compound or drywall. I can get that easy, so I knew I didn't have to order that yet until the project, demo and other work started.

What I did order was special order for the acoustical ceilings that takes a while to get to my suppliers yard and has a no refund policy since it is a special order for the supplier as well.

Gc used a pretty bad example when I asked for money. He said he was holding about 50k worth of material on his own for the owner. And if he would complain to the owners like I do they would not work with him. So he said to learn to be a business man and to change my attitude. I knew the comparison was off, but held off after he said he would pay for material increases.

I also didn't complain more since this gc always pays on time on other jobs he gives me and he kept me real busy last year, not I am not getting much from him now and this is taking way too long.
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:03 PM   #33
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


My first lawyer told me GCs lie to everyone (banker, customer, subcontractor) to get what they want. Looks like you're the proud owner of special order acoustical ceiling materials. I hope the project eventually starts so you can sell it. Have you been by the project to see that there isn't another sub doing it?
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Old 05-05-2012, 04:10 PM   #34
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Quote:
Originally Posted by peter555

Because I didn't order joint compound or drywall. I can get that easy, so I knew I didn't have to order that yet until the project, demo and other work started.

What I did order was special order for the acoustical ceilings that takes a while to get to my suppliers yard and has a no refund policy since it is a special order for the supplier as well.

Gc used a pretty bad example when I asked for money. He said he was holding about 50k worth of material on his own for the owner. And if he would complain to the owners like I do they would not work with him. So he said to learn to be a business man and to change my attitude. I knew the comparison was off, but held off after he said he would pay for material increases.

I also didn't complain more since this gc always pays on time on other jobs he gives me and he kept me real busy last year, not I am not getting much from him now and this is taking way too long.
Seriously?! I'd be showing him how good a businessman you are by having your lawyer send him a letter. You're getting screwed pal. Time to look out for yourself and get whats yours.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:11 PM   #35
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Gc used a pretty bad example when I asked for money. He said he was holding about 50k worth of material on his own for the owner. And if he would complain to the owners like I do they would not work with him. So he said to learn to be a business man and to change my attitude.



manipulation at its finest..funny the sense of entitlement some people have..be a businessman?...a businessman makes sure he gets paid..

like the owners of the project..they get paid for whatever service they are rendering at this establishment..probably on the spot..yet somehow,people think because they are building a project,they are instantly credit worthy.

it isn't complaining that you ordered specialty material and are asking for payment..

what you should have done is told him it is special order and must be paid for upfront..no ifs ands or buts..if you can return it,then they must buy it..

I hate M 'Fer's like that..they get a sense of power in doing things like that..I know the type well..
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:49 PM   #36
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


I have done commercial work in the past and we always got something up front for materials that were special order. It all matters what's in the contract. If it wasn't in the contract and he never agreed to pay for it, you are probably stuck with it.

Being good to you in the past is not relevant when he has left you high and dry for this long.

Sorry that you are going through this and hope that you can at least recoup that money.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:15 PM   #37
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Re: Can I Charge For Material A GC Made Me Order?


Send the bill and a pre lien notice to the to the property owner.
That should get th GC's attention.
It may even kink his deal, that would be a damn shame.

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