Bidding Question To GC's..need Help!! :)

SevenKitty

Hello everyone ... My husband and I are just starting out as plumbing contractors and we have the opportunity to submit a bid to a builder who is building 6 houses in the near future..one house at a time. This will be the first bid we have ever done and to be quite honest we are both totally lost...it seems like it should not be as hard as we are making it..we have no idea where to start so.....please share your wealth of knowledge please..please..please

For all the GC's and builders out there..what do you look for in a plumber? What should the bid be like? How do you figure out pricing? How should it be structured? What makes you want to work with one plumber over another? Is there a right and wrong way? etc. etc. etc. Im sooo lost

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appriciated.

thanks a ton,

Jen

joasis

I have a new plumber and I asked him to bid 2 ways...his labor only for rough in to finish, and if he supplies everything, rough in to finish. What interests me is quality work, price, and staying on schedule. The first bid he gave me for a small custom home figures at $6 a sq/ft...and I can live with that. As a GC, I need firm numbers to work with when doing a bid of my own. On the spec homes I build, I can be more flexible, but I am looking to keep costs down and I won't tolerate over-run bids without an explanation before the fact.

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SevenKitty

Thank you so much for the reply. ..Is the $6/sq ft for just labor without materials or for labor and materials? Also..are you in a right-to-work state? Here in Oregon the plumbers have to go through a 4 year apprentice program before passing the state and fed. exam. Is this how it is in your neck of the woods?

Thanks,

Jen

SevenKitty

Also..pricing per sq. ft. seems like a big risk....isnt pricing by # of fixtures, distance between etc. a safer way to go?...i dunno

Double-A

Slab, crawl space, pier and beam, part or full basement?

Most of our plumbers bid per opening rough to finish, they supply material.

Sewer and/or tap is separate bid.

Water service is separate bid.

Landscape water service with back flow prevention is separate bid. (inspected and tested.)

Gas is separate bid.

And you have to know the locations of the meters and taps before you can bid.

Starting from a plumbing background, I can say that the builder and framers can make or break you on this stuff, especially when second floors are involved. Lost time due to a joist box out or move, or to fur out a wet wall out is teh suxxors. If they don't pay attention to the plans when they frame, you'll get a GD beam under your main soil drain from the second floor every time. This makes everyone grumpy and is sure to get a roofing nailer dropped on your head.

I used to bid these per opening with fixtures supplied by builder rough to finish on slab. Tap and water service not included. Material is calculated off the plans. Just do a material takeoff. Building a house is a team effort and if the framers/builders make it hard on you, you need to charge more. On new builders or framing crews, I'd always go a bit to the high side.

Once I got to know them and their work style, I'd adjust to stay competitive if requested. Most times I'd tell the builder this is my strategy. I never bid more than one house per builder at a time and certainly would not bid all 5 at once. You go low end on him and his crews are the demon spawn of Betelgeuse, you're up a creek and losing money.

Find out if there are other considerations such as who is putting in the condensate drains (you or HVAC) and if on slab, who is sleeving to the condenser (again, you or HVAC)?

Are water closets one or two piece? (must submit make and model prior to rough in for one piece closets)
Who runs the dryer vent?
Who runs the furnace flue?
How many outside hydrants, and where, and what finish on the house (brick/stone/stucco = sleeve them)? Spec these to code, always!
Is there a hot water recirc system?
Is there an ice-maker box? (counts 1/2 opening, full ice makers with drain as 1, don't' forget trap primer)
Is there back flow protection or a regulator required in that area (means an expansion tank and possibly a pressure relief valve plumbed to daylight)?
What size water heater and how is it fueled?
Who gets in first, you or the HVAC?
Does he want hammer arresters?
Will there be other trades besides framers working at the same time? If yes, charge more. Its always nice to have the framers on site when roughing in/topping out.

Double-A

Arkansas is a right-to-work state and Plumbers must be licensed by the state after 4 year apprenticeship/test.

joasis

I should have been more specific....the $6 a ft represents the number I am interested in....and specifically this job. All of my home construction is on slab, total electric, and bid by plan. His bid to me was for $7400 on 1250 sq/ft, I did not break it down by openings, etc. I have had plumbers tell me they only will bid by opening, and I would rather catch it specifically to the plan I am on. If they won't bid my way, I get someone else. Last guy who threw that at me had prices like (if I remember correctly) $2700 per bathroom, $1800 for the kitchen, $300 for the condensate drain....and I don't remember what else.....so this will be a case of location dictates how we do it. I have to bid every board in the house, the plumber can bid specifically for the house and not throw numbers at me....just my way of doing it and I am not saying anyone elses way is wrong.


If you are doing 6 homes, you would be wise to see the plans all at once if he wants a general bid per house...square footage may be close, but layout can be a killer across plans. I have a basic plan I build low end specs from, and the baths back to each other with the kitchen and utility close...so the plumber knows they won't change much except a flip.

Right to work state here...4 years for the license.

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dirt diggler

I'm technically a GC ... and you ask what one looks for in a sub?

essentially, be as straightforward as possible in your pricing. I do not mind paying you. In fact, I want to pay you so that you will be happy.

And just do the job well.



and if you can show up and not act like a neanderthal in front of my client (in other words, no cussing, no horseplay, etc) --- YOU WOULD BE WELL AHEAD OF 90% OF THE REST.

SevenKitty

Thank you sooooo much Your info. is really helpful.

When you recieve a bid from a plumber that is specific to your plans and includes materials how do they come up with labor costs..in my mind the final bid is the cost of materials + overhead + labor. The part i am having trouble with is the "labor" seems like it is just whatever the plumber feels he is worth or can get..am i right?

By any chance does anyone have an example of a plumbers bid they wouldnt mind sharing. It would be so nice to see how the whole thing is formated.

Thanks,

Jen

joasis

On my last spec for an investor, our previous plumbing contractor charged by the hour, $65, and ran to 90 hours on an 1150 sq/ft home...rough in to finish, we suplied the materials. Now you know why we changed plumbers. The plumber we are using now works alone, charges $50 per hour, and prefers to bid rather then do time and materials (which I won't do, I never accept a T&M bid from anyone).

I would not venture to guess how you can estimate your time unless you have a lot of experience and know how long it will take to complete the job.

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cssconstruct

Here in knoxvile the plumbers bid per fixture with specifics in the contract. How many outside taps etc. Here the hvac guys handle the gas and other stuff, usually priced per ton. It is also important for me to know if that bid is for just the rough-in and set out or just the rough in. Always let your builder know what his cost is going to be up front. As the other people said go over the plans very carefully, and know what the builder wants, then charge accordingly.

Double-A

You forgot your most important item of all!!! PROFIT!!!

Start here http://www.contractortalk.com/showpo...35&postcount=4

This is the start of my doctoral thesis on pricing.

For new construction, I'd multiply that by 8 hours to the day and use a day price. Figure what you can do in a day. Two men can usually rough in a slab for 2 bath, kitchen, laundry, w/h in one day with max trench depth of 2' (PVC or ABS, this figure goes all to hell with cast iron). If your hubby has ever done this type of work before, he'll have an idea, in days, of how long each stage should take. Just remember, 1 hour per day is lugging junk back and forth to truck and unrolling cords and sharpening drill bits. Plumbing new construction is a bitch cause you set up and roll up on every job.

Pearce Services

If he has 6 houses to do, I think you could try to make the price binding for the first one only, this way you can adjust the price up or down for the balance of the work based on how the first unit works out.

You may find a very organized and efficient job super that has you not wasting time, then you could reduce your price by some of the "fluff" that you included for that.

You may find that they are all over the place costing you time, and do not want to be locked into a 6 unit deal at losing numbers.

Present it as a trial arrangement. Explain that the price will most likely stay as is, but you would like to reserve the right to reward him, for a well organized job, and protect yourself against a "cluster____"

snapper21

If I understood correctly that he/she will be building them 1 by 1 you may want to cya somehow. Around here they will cease a job if the houses are not selling, or if enough interest in them is not being shown. Market is slow in this area so you may want to take that into account. Can't help you on the bidding as I am not a plumber.
Good luck!

SevenKitty

Thank you guys so much..you have been unbelievably helpful. Double A thanks for the link..very good. Someday I hope to look back and laugh at not knowing this stuff.
We are on vaccation this week but im sure when i get back im gonna have a few more questions before we bid...nice to know there are people out there willing to help.

Thanks Again,

Jen

Double-A

On vacation and doing work? Research is work too, ya know. I demand you go and have a margarita and forget this ever happened. I know I will.

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006