Bathroom, Insulation, VB Etc....

Celtic

I'm re-doing this bathroom and have a couple of questions....

I did a search, but not wanting to read every related post and/or hijack anothers thread....starting a new thread.

Bath has been gutted to studs....a variety of studs
Exterior wall[south] is 2x4 ..will be expanded to a double 2x4 thickness
Interior wet wall [west] is 2x6...
Interior wall [north] is 2x4...
Interior wall [east] is 2x4...laid on edge...1 1/2" ~ WTF ???

The tub will along the west, south and east walls.
Tub/shower area will be completely tiled.

The questions:
On this exterior wall that will be tiled...

- Insulation...craftfaced with a VB or not?

Ceiling above tub/shower area will need a soffit to allow EF ductwork.
Portions of the roof are exposed in this area.
Insulation is a must, IMHO.

- Insulation...craftfaced with a VB or not?


The tub/shower area will be totally tiled, - from my reading, DenShield seems to be the product of choice for this application....and has VB characteristics.


........

Tile will wrap the rest of the room to a height of 48" +/-.
Green, purple or plain for the sheetrock?

I've read [Thanks Greg Di and TomR] that the green is basically useless.
Purple or plain?

The bath is rather small, [5x8 w/o deduction for tub]....using 2 different products would probably result in excess waste/cost....in the long run cheaper to use 1 product ~ even if that product is more expensive.
True?

***********

Floor to be tiled.
Is DenShield a suitable material for the tile?
Stick with the standard CBU?

__________________

neolitic

Use unfaced friction fit batts
with 4mil visqueen vapor barrier.
DensArmor drywall, and setting compound
i.e. DuraBond, rather than pre-mix
drywall compound.

IMO, Durok or Hardie is better
material for floors.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

WarnerConstInc.

I have had good experiences with denshield for tub walls, 1/4" denshield on floor and purple board for the rest of the walls.

__________________
Warner Remodeling ll Auburn Indiana Remodeling ll Dekalb County Remodeling ll Custom Woodworking Auburn Indiana
Warner Remodeling Facebook

Mike Finley

Almost like neolitic said, but we'd use the DS in the wet area and normal drywall everywhere else, unfaced bats, vapor barrier on warm side everywhere but wet area.

(We have low humidity here)

Celtic

I asked about the VB and DS specifically because, the GP website indicates DS has a moisture barrier....and a barrier should not added.

__________________

angus242

You could use DensArmor for all walls and ceilings. Just use Kerdi in the wet areas to tiled. No faced batts necessary then.

For the floor add a layer of EGP and Ditra. Kerdi-Band the seams.

Totally waterproof bathroom!

__________________
Angus
L+M+O+P=C
"Promise only what you can deliver. Then deliver more than you promise"

neolitic

I'm old fashioned (surprise?), I use
Durock in the showers and surrounds.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

Tom M

Celtic no vapor barrier behing tiled areas in wet locations, remaining can have. You want to use Dense Shield not Dens Armor for tile. I use purple for the remaining areas. 5/8" on ceiling for 16" o/c or 1/2" if 12"centers.

angus242

If you use Kerdi, why can't you use DensArmor in wet areas? What do you use to waterproof wet areas then?
And why not use DensArmor instead of purple? Purple has paper, DensArmor doesn't. Paper = food for mold.

__________________
Angus
L+M+O+P=C
"Promise only what you can deliver. Then deliver more than you promise"

Celtic

It may be an improvement over the various other substrates ~ but my tiles guys have never used these membranes systems.

IMHO, it would be best to at least use a material they are familiar with... DS is what they mentioned.

__________________

Celtic

The only exterior areas is the south wall and a small portion of the roof.....is a VB even necessary on interior walls?


That is generally my plan ~ unless there is reason [personal experience, preferences, codes?] not to.

__________________

WarnerConstInc.

The purple board is easier to finish than the densarmor, for me at least, I just had a few issues with the fiberglass matting.

No vapor barrior, plastic, behind denshield.

I agree with Angus, kerdi over the deshield is totally bullet proof. Several times I have had to silicone the edges together and red guard the nail heads and seems.

I shouldn't do this but, another option for the shower surround is a solid suface material. Corian, avonite, lg.....
Did several of those this year, pretty much bullet proof.

__________________
Warner Remodeling ll Auburn Indiana Remodeling ll Dekalb County Remodeling ll Custom Woodworking Auburn Indiana
Warner Remodeling Facebook

Tom M

Vapor barrier on the warm side are the rules for us. Especially in a damp enviorment. Add a fan with a humidistat to run. Ideally they run long enough to clear the moisture. You dont put vapor retarder in tiled areas because the tile acts as a barrier. Double barriers trap moisture.


You could probably use anything behind Kerdi since it decouples the two materials. I myself am less familar with the Kerdi system but should learn since it may become an industry standard. More time and more expense. The cement board requires waterproofing behind the board or a redguard protective on the surface.
Dens shield is sealed at the surface just by silicone at all joints, top, bottom, sides and penetrations Before tiling! Just dont over tool the joint because that weakens the bond for tile. You want to fill the gap only.

Tom M

Purple is actually called XP mold resistant drywall. Look it up. They chemically treat the paper. I believe DensARMOR is supierior but it does cost more and requires more finishing. Its not must.

Tom Struble

certainteed has a interesting variable vapor barrier

http://www.certainteed.com/resources...y%20Primer.pdf

__________________
Tom

angus242

I won't argue the point about purple XP board. If it is truly mold resistant, fine. However, using paper and then treating it with chemicals or just using wallboard without paper seems like a no brainer to me. And I know first hand, it takes no extra prep work to finish off DensArmor. Prime & paint. Done.

Maybe you should get new tile guys. Schluter products have been around since the 80's. Any tile setter that doesn't waterproof a wet location is plain irresponsible. There's no excuse for not educating one's self on new procedures. Waterproofing is not just an improvement, it's a necessary method to stop mold and rot.

You do not use a vapor barrier behind Kerdi or other membranes. They are a vapor barrier and if you use an additional one behind them, you'll create a moisture sandwich.

You want a full-proof and easy way to construct a bathroom, use DensArmor, Kerdi and Kerdi-band with non-faced batts for insulation. What's easier than using only 1 type of wall material? For the floor, make sure it will structurally handle your tile installation (deflection), add exterior-glue plywood and then Ditra. Install a proper ventilation system.

That bathroom will stay mold and rot proof for a long-long time.

__________________
Angus
L+M+O+P=C
"Promise only what you can deliver. Then deliver more than you promise"

neolitic

I found the trick is to prime
with oil (CoverStain) and
½" nap roller.
Build your own texture to hide
their texture.
It even looks pretty damn nice
with semi gloss.

__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

angus242

We've had great results using SW Preprite Problock latex primer with a 1/2" nap. Finish with 2 coats of SW Duration or Bath paint also with a 1/2" nap. We've had a few where we only replaced parts of the walls and when finished, you cannot tell the difference between old or new finish.

__________________
Angus
L+M+O+P=C
"Promise only what you can deliver. Then deliver more than you promise"

jarvis design

Angus, as usual, is bang on with his procedure. The one thing we do differently is too still install 1/2" concrete board in the shower or tub area - then kerdi, then tile, the use epoxy grout to finish it off.

On one other note, I have been using Panasonic exhaust fans for the last 4 years and they are outstanding! Definately the best quality fan I have seen on the market. They also provide a lot of information on the proper way to install the exhaust vent, something that is overlooked quite often.
I have seen so many fans installed with a roof vent directly above. Its hard to create a good run in this case.

__________________
Bathrooms Built for Life.
www.JarvisDesignBuild.com
519-495-4062

angus242

Yes, we have used Panasonic fans too. We recently switched to Nutone with the built-in humidistat. This is simply because we cannot get customers to actually use the fan all the time. This way, it goes on for them. Sucks but it seems the only way to get people to use them.
However, I would have no issues using a Panasonic fan.

__________________
Angus
L+M+O+P=C
"Promise only what you can deliver. Then deliver more than you promise"