Apprentice-level Carpenter With Big Ambitions

dantheman

So I'm going to be graduating from college soon, with my degree in chemisty, and moving back to Austin, TX. I'm pretty sure that what I really want to be doing, is improving my carpentry skills and trying to run my own contracting business, rather than continuing with chemistry (it's all but impossible to do anything in that field without going to grad school, which isn't in the cards for a variety of reasons - and a master's degree in chemistry is universally seen as a failed PhD, according to my professors).

My question - as an apprentice-level carpenter, with experience primarily in framing and deck-building, would it make sense for me to try and go out on my own, taking on smaller-scale jobs, or would I be better off working for someone else for a while to increase my skill level? The massive time-commitment of running a business is something I'm more than willing to accept, and I figure at age 22, with no family to support, I'd have nothing to lose by trying it on my own. I do worry, though, that without more experience in other areas, I'd be severely limiting myself in the long run. Basically, I'm at a point where I know I have a lot to learn, and I'm trying to figure out if going out on my own is the right way to learn it. Any input is appreciated.

Tscarborough

22 with no family enables you to make the attempt and not have to worry about the repercussions of a failure, for sure. Had you gotten a degree in business or management, and had the practical skills of carpentry, I would say go for it. However, you would probably be best served by finishing your technical training, while keeping an eye open for an opportunity as a foreman or even job superintendent.

Most employers are begging for anyone with some snap and a willingness to both work hard and accept responsibility. Good luck, and if I can help you, PM me.

Cole

Dan,
I am 23 and have been in the construction industry for about 13 years.

I say go for it, you are just like me.

I have no family to support so I have nothing to worry about except the clothes on my back. It has been really really tough. I can't say that enough. You can make it work if you are honest and hard working.

Expect to lose some jobs because of your age but once you have a a customer base built up that will overcome the age fear your clients will have.

As you can tell, I can talk about this forever.

__________________
Tulsa's Leader in Outdoor Living Construction | Facebook | Tulsa Pergola Builder | Tulsa Outdoor Kitchens

dantheman

Tscarborough: Heading straight for management-type positions, without the field experience to back it up, sounds like a quick, straight shot into doing the kind of quantity over quality work that guys on here are always complaining about. If I can, I'd rather either work on my own terms, or learn more from somebody who does the kind of work I'd like to be doing, say, 10 years down the line.

Cole: The age thing is a funny thing. While finishing my degree, I've been doing all kinds of odd jobs around town (mostly from ads on craigslist, etc.), mostly landscaping, the odd deck or demo job here and there. One thing I've noticed, is that pretty much all my clients so far have been really impressed - No matter the job, I always strive to be as professional as possible, whether I'm bringing 7 of my friends to gut a house for a remodel, mowing a lawn, or moving boxes. My ad mentions that I'm a college student, which tends to attract a certain type of client and probably turns others off (I wouldn't know, since I only get calls for the ones it attracts... . Most of these people are surprised that I have my own tools, let alone know how to use them, but to date, I've always left them happy. I don't know if the same will apply in the future, when my situation changes, but the point is, I'm pretty sure the age hurdle is the least of my problems.

Hardly Working

Well you said it yourself you don't have all the knowledge you need. Hook up with a good high end company and learn all you can from foundation to finish. Continue to work on your own and build a client base and portfolio (start NOW). When I was in my 20's I hooked up with a guy how had a roofing business and I kid you not he did grass roofs to torch down. He learned it by traveling Down Under, So. America and else where. Use craigslist to find a good contractor at home or somewhere else like Boston. Travel a little your young man see the world and learn at the same time. Hum not to bad. The plus side of construction is you've got more to show (decks, kitchens, ect) than with your chem degree. Good luck with what ever you choose.

dantheman

That's the thing - I was thinking about starting a business specializing in the areas where I DO have sufficient skills to do it right - like i said, it just worries me that I might get stuck doing that and not advancing myself. Thanks for the advice - I really appreciate y'all's support.

kgphoto

Dad,

Being a contractor is a business. My suggestion is to get a job with a local contractor that you respect and learn from him. Don't be afraid to change jobs, if they don't do the work you can respect as well as in a manner you are comfortable in. At the same time, go to school and learn about running a business and marketing.

Do a few side jobs with the skills you have confidence in when they arise and don't conflict with your current employer. After about three years you will be prepared to make a stab at it.

This process will save you time, heartache and money losses. A business must be run as a business correctly or it can really cost you. If you jump in too soon, you will be so busy putting together the deck you won't have time to advance your skills or do the marketing to line up the next job. Anyone can find work in a boom time, but when it gets lean, you will suffer. Rumor has it lean times are a coming.

Kirk

wackman

Hi Dan, welcome to the forum.

I had a situation similar except for the college. I come from a construction family, my father, uncle, cousins, ect... are all contractors and I used to work with them in the summers and after school. I also went to a tech high school and majored in electrical with a minor in carpentry. Then I worked as a carpenter till I was 22. At that time I decided I would be a contractor also. I had good basic skills and a great network to back me up if I had questions or needed a hand.

I have a cousin who was doing pretty much the exact same thing at the exact same time and we co contracted on some 50k and up projects. I did my own company for two years of 100 hr week summers and sometimes 0 hr week winters (economy was leaner back then) before I realized that even though I was doing better than almost all my friends, overall I wasn't learning as much anymore. I was focused on doing what I already knew and if I tried something new I was winging it with someone elses property as my guinea pig. That's a recipe for trouble. Things like commercial carpentry are very hard to learn on your own. I decided to go back to working for someone else for a while to learn and quickly moved up the ladder for a premier North west contractor and became the youngest foreman ever at the company.

My cousin decided to continue working for himself. In 3 years time he had had 3 different companies and all had crashed and burned, he was sleeping on my couch and owed money to everyone. We were practically begging him to just get a job. Then he started his latest company about 4 years ago and got it right. He had learned enough to make it and now he is going to build 120 new homes this year and is making around a half million a month... for himself. He just bought a new Ferrari and is building a 1.5 million home in the hills.

I worked for that company for 4 years before starting my own company again with 10 times more knowledge and experience. I build new homes now, still do some contracting, and am doing pretty well myself (not as good as my cousin yet, but soon,very soon).

The difference is I didn't sleep on anyones couch, owe anyone money, have any of my businesses fail or learn any other lessons the hard way. Plus his level of success is very rare.

The hardest lesson for me was dealing with people, both the customers and the employees. The employees/subs are still the hardest.

Hope my cousin and I's storys help you choose what's right for you and good luck.

ruskent

When your young is the best time to start a business. I am 20 and been in business since i was 18. If i had kids i don't think i'd see them enough to remember there names!!!!

If i was you i'd go right out on my own. Make friends with an expereinced carpenter, so incase you ever get a job were your not 100% sure on the right way to do something, you can have him come out and give you some tips.

Also, i'd recommened to stick to one aspect of this business and do just that. If you like decks do only decks, or trim, or framing.. Specailizing is the way to make money.

Matt

Mike Finley

Pardon my candor, but you going into business for yourself is a cluster fu#k waiting to happen. #1 you don't have really any technical skills to speak of and #2 you don't have any business skills to speak of. Sure you can hang out your shingle and go for it, but what a huge uphill battle you are facing.

There is a reason for apprenticeships. My advice would be to forget everything you think you know and set a goal of working for a really good contracting company for 5 years. Learn about business, marketing and accounting in your spare time while working and building your construction skills.

In hiring part-time guys for my company it is amazing what these guys think they know and what they really know. I have had guys who rate their tile skills as a 9 out of 10 and they haven't ever mixed a bucket of thinset before! I've made thousands of thousands of dollars laying tile and wouldn't even rate my self over a 7 at this point - why? Because I know what the real benchmarks are. That's what is really important. Just because you can build a deck doesn't mean you know how to build decks worth a damn compared to somebody who has been doing it successfully for 20 years.

I mean seriously to all the guys and girls here, who in their right mind would recommend to go start a business?

I have serious doubts any of you would hire this guy as he stands today to run a crew for you now would you? If you wouldn't trust him to do that, why in the world should he be going into business for himself?

dantheman

I'm glad to get such an honest response - most of the things you've brought up are the things I've been worried about myself. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with what so many of you have recommended, IE trying to find a good contractor to work for and learn from over the course of the next few years. However, I'm still thinking about putting together my own business and just taking on small side projects that are within my skill level, so I can get some hands-on experience with running a business for myself. I figure that as long as I'm realistic about my skill level and what I can do, I don't have anything to lose, and I might just be able to start making a name for myself.

dantheman

Cole - I saw you PM'ed me, but I don't have enough posts yet to respond. In answer to your questions, yes, I have done a bit of framing, and in 5-10 years, I want to be the best carpenter I can possibly be.