Aesthetic Or Actually A Support Column?

bujaly

Have a customer that doesn't like these columns and wants to take the arch out and the columns. Now, I'm not 100% sure if these columns are supportive, but I'm pretty sure it's decoration. Here's my question, how do I find this out for sure? I asked the owner a few questions about the builder and they said they tried contacting the builders and they will not tell them nor let them look at the blueprints. I'm assuming I can just open up the walls near the top to have a looksy at what's going on.. What do you all think?

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send_it_all

My guess is decorative. I don't see what those columns are doing that the jack/king studs aren't. The only way to be sure is to open it up and look.

J F

Have the clients pay you to drill a small hole in the column(s) to see if there are any supporting studs in the column. If it's hollow, it's probably decorative. Patch and paint.

Just be aware you may have to repaint the whole column to match, so price accordingly.

Another route, cut the sheet rock at the upper corners of the openings (outside the columns) to see if you find the end of the header and jack studs. Of course you have sheetrock patch, etc. to deal with.

Major point, have them pay you for this time/work.

J

Harmoney Const

You should ask your clients if they used floor trusses or not or if they have steel columns in the house. Also they maybe able to retrieve some blueprints either by contacting the building department who issued the permit or the archutect. My theory is that it is a bearing wall with header in it or else the arch would be alot higer that almost looks like a 2x12 header however the king studs and cripples should be supporting it and not the columns. One easy way is to pull 3 1/4" off the wall and drive a small nail if your hittn wood then you might as well bet that is your king stud or a double cripple!

wizendwizard

How wide is that span? It looks to be over 60".

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SelfContract

It's such a dumb idea to take it out. Column-Arc is a beautiful ART!. Guaranteed it non-support.

bujaly

Little under 8 feet...


I agree sir, completely..

Kinda of lost me on that one friend..

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Kaiser

It doesn't look load bearing to me but I would give the customer a price including a 10' 2x12 double header beam and post to hold it up. Your going to have to remove the drywall above the arch anyway. Then you will see what is needed. If you can just box it out your ahead of the game if not your covered. As it has been stated on this forum before don't itemize your bids just a bottom line price.

It seems to me drilling holes and and patching to investigate is added work for you and extra cost to the customer.

reveivl

I wouldn't imagine the columns are load bearing but...

What is under the columns? I assume (?) you have found out already that the floor joists above the arch are running across it and not parallel?

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Jason Whipple

Say what? They make hollow load bearing columns every day of the week! You need to check the wall framing. Drilling or cutting a hole in the column will only do one thing/ruin a column.

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wizendwizard

I was holding my tongue!!

If that span is almost 8 ft, I would simply check the floor joist as stated before. Can almost promise they aren't load bearing. There isn't enough header in that arch to support weight above in an 8' span.

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bujaly

DAMN IT! I knew I missed something to check. I am an idiot. I will be re-checking that one. DAMN!! I was in and out of that place and on my way home, I was thinking I missed something. Thanks..

I thought that was not the right way. I see columns holding porches up all the time and they're hollow, some aluminum. These were hollow as well.

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J F

Sorry Jason...see next line...about checking for header behind sheetrock.

Only going on my own experience, but the few times this has come up with the these ornamental, interior columns, they have been just that...ornamental.

J

bujaly

Lets put it this way, if its structural, the customer doesn't want to bother. If it's not, then I'm gonna go ahead and re-frame. I will have to get back there and check the floor joist, because they have another archway that is at the other entrance of the room which is perpendicular to the one pictured. here's a picture of the other..

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J F

Mitch

I might be more concerned why their builder won't communicate with them....did they give you any clue?

In perfect world you could get the builders side and maybe save yourself some aggravation.

Or, are these already good clients of yours?

J

J F

Tell them you'll pull one column out for half price to see what happens

You might not get any more work in that area though.

J

neolitic

Like Jason said floor joist parallel, non-bearing.
A house is full of tell tales. Heat runs and registers
are easy ones, if there are floor registers.
Ceiling registers and R/A's are good too.
Heat runs won't cross joist unless they are
trusses or I-joist, and this is easy to see
at the stairway (distance between ceiling
and 2nd floor FF).
Pulling a floor register is easy, a ladder
and stud finder only a tad more work.
If the joist are perpendicular, it still
doesn't mean that it's bearing.
Look underneath(basement/crawl) see if there is
blocking, beam, double joist....

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Jason Whipple

Looks like there could be enough room there for 3, 7 1/4" LVL's above the arch. That could easily hold the weight. Could be a little more room than that, can't really scale things out with a picture.

If I had built it or designed it I would have built it with jack studs holding up the LVL's and then built the arch under it. I think most would agree, but you just never know when you crack into someone else's work.

I'm kind of surprised that the H/O's never got a copy of the prints in there documents from the builder along with there warranty paper work and C/O. Wonder why that is? Depending on the local code enforcment, it might be on file at the building permit office.

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J F

Jason/Mitch

If they did happen to be structural, I assume they would have been placed during the framing stage, correct? Then painted with the rest of the house?

Ask the homeowner if they remember seeing them during the framing stage (assuming they are the original owners and had any interest during the building stages).

J

Jason Whipple

I think I see why they don't like them. The radius's don't even match. The one in this picture is awful! There's a weird looking high point in the top of this one.

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Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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