1st Rookie Mistake!

janrickey

We were doing a bathroom remodel for a friend of a friend. This is not a remodel we would have done, except for it was for a friend. The way my carpenter described it is perfect. He said, "We are polishig a turd!" The house is pretty disgusting.

Anyway, we didn't pull a permit cuz the home owner had another bathroom added that was not to code and didn't want any problems with the city. We had a big discussion about this. Our bad, we didn't insist on a permit.

1/2 way through the job, she has become the client from "HELL". Changing her mind, saying we got it wrong... up to this point we have tried to placate the client but this morning I got a call from her asking if we pulled a permit. I said no and reminded her why we didn't get a permit. She said, that makes out contract null and void and I'm not paying you anymore money. She still owes over $4,000.00.

One of the clauses in my contract does read we will pull the permit and she will pay for it, if necessary. And it doesn't say she can break the contract if we didn't pull the permit. The only thing I have in my contract on how a client can break a contract is 1) if we don't show up to work for 5 days, with exceptions, and 2) failure to provide liability insurance and workers comp.

Now, I know we aren't attornies on this website, I am hoping someone has ran into this kinda client before and can tell me what's going on. I have made an appointment with my attorney but it's not for a week and my stomach is rumbling and grumbling I am so PO'd.

To rub salt in the wound, the client's Mother was bragging to a mutual friend on how last year she totally got over on a Contractor and it cost the Contractor over $5,000.00. Wish I would have heard that 4 weeks ago...

Any insight would help. I am completely stressing out over our mistake and am having a hard time waiting till next week to find anything out.

Thanks

JD

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When your work speaks for itself, don’t interrupt!

Jan

Tscarborough

Ask for a kiss.

Gordo

Finish the job...bite your tounge....kiss butt.....

You just learned a lesson in the School of Hard Knocks.

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Looks like some pros were here.

Melissa

Pull a permit now, and pay a fine??

mdshunk

Education is expensive. There are many ways to pay.

Some people pay tuition to a traditional school.

Some people learn from the experiences of others.

Some people pay with weeks and weeks of frustration, worry, and lack of sleep.

dougchips

This is what I would do, tell the inspector that you will pay the fine and that you were going to pull one after she had her other issues corrected.

Gordo

Good idea Melissa.

Best thing is to grab your city official to the side and spill the beans. Be contrite. Most inspectors have worked in the trades at one point in time, so they know how tricky some HOs can be.

Just do not let it happen again.

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Melissa

I don't know that I'd spill the beans?? I've sort of learned honesty isn't always the best policy.

dirt diggler

Alright ---first of all, yeah, you're dealin with a POS.

Check into your local building dept regs. Around here, I THINK it is the HO's responsibility to acquire permits, and the contractor is more or less an "agent." In other words, it is their fault a permit is not pulled --- regardless of a contractual obligation on your part to do so. Again, check the regs in your area.

Now,

Your contract specifically states "we will pull the permit and she will pay for it, if necessary." Well, is it necessary to have a permit for the bathroom remodel??

Not to beat on you --- but you had a discussion about this beforehand. It was agreed upon that you wouldn't apply for any permits. AND THEN you just write in your contract that you will.

"And it doesn't say she can break the contract if we didn't pull the permit."

It doesn't have to ... if you stated in your contract that you would apply for permits ... and then fail to do so, you have not lived up to that term. Right?


Now, to help you in the future --- get rid of your "right to cancel" clause. "Not showing up for 5 days" --- you are just slitting your own wrists. Yeah, you've got a real POS on your hands -- but just wait till you get ahold of a real crook. And failing to provide gen liab. ins.?? How about this "Client will be provided proof of [insurances] prior to [your company] beginning work."

Another tip is to minimize your worry. You can't let it consume you. For one, your productivity will suffer, and two, you just won't have any fun. Things will happen (good and bad). Sh*t WILL hit the fan at times. So don't worry about it. It's business.

And --- do not stress out over your mistake. It will not be the last. "It is what it is." All you can do now is deal with it

I'm not an attorney -- or maybe I'm just not experienced enough yet; but I don't know what kinda case you have here. If it wasn't for your "ill fly, you buy" permit term, I'd say you're in the clear (as far as having a solid case).

Tscarborough

I beg to differ. When you start work without the required permit being posted, then you are in the wrong. Do you have insurance?

dirt diggler

Don't have to beg --- I wasn't certain of that myself.

Doesn't matter though --- it's in his contract

Mike Finley

The only thing she has got over you is your fear of the building inspector. Other than that, there is nothing legally over your head to not get paid, small claims baby and get ready to make he cry uncle.

Here's an option and it's up to you. But lots of municipalities allow homeowners to pull permits and do work on their homes, it falls back to the belief that a homeowner should be able to improve their home any time they want. Some municipalities make a distinction between the homeowner actually having to do the actual work and some don't. In some of the counties where I work there is no distinction, the homeowner can pull the permit and have somebody else do the work. It all just comes down to who is ultimately excepting responsibility. I've asked the inspectors about this and they say as long as the homeowner signs the permit application they are fully responsible. This may or may not be the case where you are.

Anyways, the long and the short of it is, now you didn't hear this from me, but you might want to go down to the building dept and let them know that this person hired you to work on their house and when you asked about permitting they told you that they were pulling a homeowners permit, and now you just wanted to inform the building dept that it's been 2 weeks and she still hasn't shown you the permit and you don't think she ever pulled it. Oh boy, the fur will fly on that one!

Tscarborough

You are an evil man, Mike Finley. I like that...

stacker

thats what i say,break it off in their azz.

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Melissa

Very nice Finley. This customer doesn't have any idea who she's dealing with?

widco

---!

tkle

Hate to be a pooper but if the individual phases have been done without being signed off as a professional you're probably at fault.Like Melissa suggested pay the fine and you may have to expose part of your work to be seen.Hopefully you've taken pictures along the way and saved any receipt to back up claims of required material used.It may get expensive.Good luck and if nothing else the code enforcement will be aware that your client has two unpermited bathrooms.

Gordo

Honesty is always the best policy. Listening to all these responses on how to circumvent the problem at hand in an underhanded manner is absolutely unethical......making you the contractor just as bad as the underhanded HO.

Truth: Janrickey already told us the story of what really went down. He should have pulled the permit, but he did not.....1st rookie mistake.

If Janrickey does anything other than fess up, then he will be commiting his 2nd and maybe last rookie mistake.

Note: Janrickey, this is a situation you put yourself in to....not the HO.
Only you can make it right by telling the truth...pulling the permit.....and finishing the job. Paying the fines sounds much cheaper than losing $4k and getting a lawsuit slapped on top of that. You may lose your license. Doom and gloom I know but TRUTH is you broke the law, not the HO.

Do not stoop down to the HO level....your reputation is on the line.

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Looks like some pros were here.

dougchips

To rub salt in the wound, the client's Mother was bragging to a mutual friend on how last year she totally got over on a Contractor and it cost the Contractor over $5,000.00. Wish I would have heard that 4 weeks ago... <----Jan, I would have some fun with this angle.

Get the word to the mother that you have a history of lawsuits against homeowners and that you budget 60,000 a year from lawsuits that you win. Whoever you can get to put the bug in her ear, tell them to say that you lawyer feels that you can count on about 15,000-20,000 of off her.

Gordo

Yeah, that will fly real well.

Once the inspectors snif that old as the hills excuse out you will be branded the crooked contractor. Now you will be a shooting duck on every inspection for the rest of your life.

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Looks like some pros were here.