$189 Windows?

 
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:51 AM   #1
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$189 Windows?


I think I have read a couple of threads about the $189 window guys on here before. It seemed like the opinion was that they were cheap windows and that they then nickled and dimed you to death or something like that.

I just saw an article about them and discovered they are the #1 window company in the country. They install just under 100,000 windows a month, last year their sales were $270,000,000.00. They do 34% of their business from repeat and referrals. They say they have the best warranty in the business and their windows are rated as some of the best in the industry.

I was wondering if the opinions of those guys had changed, and if not what gives? These guys don't seem to fit the mold of scammers and their numbers don't seem to fit that mold either. What's the catch?
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:56 AM   #2
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Re: $189 Windows?


Mike the catch is, by the time you are done listening to the presentation, you will not want to buy a $189 dollar window, they will have up sold you to their "premium" $300 $400 or higher window. In addition the $189 usually doesn't include wrapping and other extras. If I had the volume that they do, I could easily install a decent vinyl window for close to $200

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Old 11-25-2007, 12:03 PM   #3
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Re: $189 Windows?


You believe everything you read? Did they pay to get the article written and published?

Were the gross sales and repeat customer numbers verified?

Did they lie to the writer?
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:04 PM   #4
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Re: $189 Windows?


Hey Mike just curious, do you guys replace the bathroom window as part of your bath remodel generally? Do you go with a replacement or rip the whole thing out and put in some sort of Andersen unit?
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:05 PM   #5
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Re: $189 Windows?


So what exactly does that mean? Are you saying 300-400 is too much, that they are baiting and switching? Will they not install $189 windows?

If I take their numbers 270,000,000 in sales divided by they said 89,874 jobs = $3004 per job. They said they sold 850,000 windows. That equals 9.4 windows per job or an aveage of $319.00 per window.

So according to that the average window they sell cost 319.00 installed. Is that a rip off?

We rarely do windows in our remodels. Often it is a glass block, (actually acrylic block) to solve a problem like a window being in the way of where somebody wants to enlarge a shower. Also 've never installed one of those for anything close to as cheap as $300.00

Quote:
You believe everything you read? Did they pay to get the article written and published?

Were the gross sales and repeat customer numbers verified?

Did they lie to the writer?
Qualified remodeler is a pretty good trade magazine with a good reputation. If your position is it's all lies then I guess that's where it ends for you. Here is a link to the online version of the article. http://www.qualifiedremodeler.com/pr...ow-World/1$682

Last edited by Mike Finley; 11-25-2007 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:08 PM   #6
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Re: $189 Windows?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
So according to that the average window they sell cost 319.00 installed. Is that a rip off?
$319 is a low end budget landlord job for us. We like to be in the $375-500 range
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:15 PM   #7
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Re: $189 Windows?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
$319 is a low end budget landlord job for us. We like to be in the $375-500 range
Why is that? Do you need to be $375-500 to meet your profit and overhead or because there is no way for anybody to deliver a quality window with a quality installation for less then $375-$500?
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:15 PM   #8
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Re: $189 Windows?


They also stay clear of discussing the $189.00 window. They talk in terms of *** per month.

....."So sir, we finance with nothing down and no payments until 2009 for only *** per month. And that would include the added charge for cladding the trim on the outside"
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:21 PM   #9
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Re: $189 Windows?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
...Qualified remodeler is a pretty good trade magazine with a good reputation. If your position is it's all lies then I guess that's where it ends for you. Here is a link to the online version of the article. http://www.qualifiedremodeler.com/pr...ow-World/1$682
It looks like an ad. It is common practice to pay for an article like that. In my industry, the most famous ad was when George Brazil bought his place in "This Old House".

You can buy an article in my local paper to say anyhting you want about your company.
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:26 PM   #10
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Re: $189 Windows?


Their upgrade window is an Alside mid range. Not a bad window, not a great window........ratings are better than an Andersen or Pella. Warranty is very good, one of the best on the market. A year ago I sold the same window for $415-$535.

I applaud them for running their ship on such tight margins.
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:31 PM   #11
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Re: $189 Windows?


High pressure presentation and bait and switch sale. I wonder what percentage of closed contracts were deposit checks written after presentation?
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:57 PM   #12
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Re: $189 Windows?


I did a home show a few weeks ago, the $1000 (Champion and Schuco)vinyl window guys were grousing about the $189 window guys. They were both there selling windows.
I've been doing this for over 30 years and I could not see much difference between the windows. I agree they probably sell most windows for $300 to $400 when you add Low-E. Argon, haul away old windows ect. But if you read that magazine article many of the people who bought that franchise are very happy with their income. I have installed Certainteed, Silver Line, Gorel and a few others (Vinyl Windows) and never could see a big difference in the all vinyl windows.
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Old 11-25-2007, 01:09 PM   #13
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Re: $189 Windows?


I rarely do vinyl window installs, but some of them are very cheap to buy and if you install fast and the frame is a good one, you can do many of them in a day. say they charge 300 to install the average double hung window, including he cost of the window, say they got the vinyl window at a huge discount because of nationwide volume and it costs them 120 bucks to buy, they take 20-30 minutes max per window, they are still making ok money per window to install. it's not my cup of tea to do vinyl because most jobs we do the windows are 500-2000 a piece just to buy. and i charge anywhere from 400-1000 for install of each window, all depends on size, trim detail both interior and exterior. There is pretty good money in window replacement, imo, and it's super labor intensive. I do the whole frame though most of the time, not replacement. one job i did about 5 years ago, we did 20 marvin tiltpac windows in just over a day. i charged the guy back then, a 100 bucks per window to install, plus the cost of the window. for me and one helper, we had them down to like 20 minutes or less per window.
the ideal house for replacement windows is a 50-70s rancher. when you get into really old houses, they frames are either shot or so out of plumb and square that it's better to just rip it out and start from scratch, plus the people end up with some insulation around it then.
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Old 11-25-2007, 04:20 PM   #14
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Re: $189 Windows?


I used them this last summer to replace 7 windows in a flip house. Used the $189 window. They charged an extra $25.00 to wrap the exterior frames with trim coil. All in all the windows seemed pretty decent and the install was ok. Not the best but I'm sure not the worst either.

They operate on the low price-high volume business model. The other model is the high price-low volume one. Both are valid and you see them all the time in real life. Look at the $15 jeans at Wal-Mart or the $200 jeans from some fancy designer at some specialty store. 50 cent Bud draft night at the local watering hole or $5.00 per glass at the ritzy club downtown.
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:23 PM   #15
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Re: $189 Windows?


I used them this last summer to replace 7 windows in a flip house. Used the $189 window. They charged an extra $25.00 to wrap the exterior frames with trim coil. All in all the windows seemed pretty decent and the install was ok. Not the best but I'm sure not the worst either.

Hey Chazbe,how professional were their installers?
Were they company employees or subs?
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:03 PM   #16
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Re: $189 Windows?


They were subs. The owner said he stays really busy doing just the window work. Both guys were courteous and professional, cleaned up well after the job was done. Since the house was under demolition/construction at the time I wasn't too concerned with some minor debris being left but they did a good job.
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Old 11-26-2007, 07:34 PM   #17
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Re: $189 Windows?


We've done the whole house at $200 a window. I usually do Phillips at that price or for a little more Certainteed. I get the window (Phillips) for $110, already has low E and argon I believe. One of my guys is really good at these, done hundreds, maybe thousands. This is only on old single hungs or double hung retrofits , but he can run through and replace these in about 15-30 min per window from demo to caulk. He can usually do the whole house in a day.

Just did one since we were already there doing a dormer addition. 16 windows, all old double hungs, took him 7 hours.

3,400. for job
1,800 for windows and other materials
375 for manpower
75 approx overhead
50 misc
______
1,100 left over. I was happy with that.

This ONLY works with really easy retro fits!
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:26 PM   #18
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Re: $189 Windows?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wackman View Post
We've done the whole house at $200 a window. I usually do Phillips at that price or for a little more Certainteed. I get the window (Phillips) for $110, already has low E and argon I believe. One of my guys is really good at these, done hundreds, maybe thousands. This is only on old single hungs or double hung retrofits , but he can run through and replace these in about 15-30 min per window from demo to caulk. He can usually do the whole house in a day.

Just did one since we were already there doing a dormer addition. 16 windows, all old double hungs, took him 7 hours.

3,400. for job
1,800 for windows and other materials
375 for manpower
75 approx overhead
50 misc
______
1,100 left over. I was happy with that.

This ONLY works with really easy retro fits!
Interesting post here at 200 per window. I'm impressed that this guy can set that many windows in 7 hours first off. Your lucky to have a guy with that kind of hustle and skill.
Thing would concern me is say you did this everyday with subs like window world does. Two crews 32 windows day, 160 week, say 50 weeks that's 8000 windows a year say do this 4-5 years man that's one bunch of windows with YOUR NAME ON THEM!!! Say there are few problems with the window itself or the installations that were done. It would take a big pile of money for me to want my name on that many windows these days! I like to sleep at night.
What then?
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:03 PM   #19
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Re: $189 Windows?


He's got one of the best work ethics I've ever seen, plus his quality is high. The trick is to getting the windows just the right size. If they're too small or the window is out of square then you gotta start shaving and that's where it can bog down. Too big and it's sloppy. Often the windows show up wrong or even damaged.
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:50 AM   #20
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Re: $189 Windows?


Recently, here in CA, we were the painter, on a tract that had leaking windows on 80 homes.

Personally, I would NOT want to go through that much aggravation!
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