10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND

MZ-HANDYMAN · 07-30-2009, 11:14 PM

I have a client that had someone build him a KOI POND shaped like a "D" It's 30' long and the arched side is a 15' dia. arch He said it is 4' deep but I think he measured it before the concrete was poured. The arched wall is at about a 45 degree or steeper slope (very dangerous!!). Once the algae is established on the walls it will be very difficult for anyone or any creature who falls in to get out.

I can tell you right now that whomever came up with this shape was not a Pond Builder. The slope is too steep, No Liner under the Concrete and there are no shelves for shallow water plants . I know CINDER BLOCKS standing on end. The depth is the same all the way across. I estimate it at about 10k Gallons.

There were no forethoughts for Filtration, Skimmer, Entrance or Exit. There is though a drain with a Ball valve cut off at one end. He wanted me to plumb the pump to the drain on the (Outside) of the pond NO CAN DO!. I told him that for this type of pond he will need an In-Pond filter with the pump inside of the filter/bio box pumping water out to the other side where the water fall will be. I gave him the numbers to crunch for water volume surface area and depth and he ordered the filtration, pump etc on his own.

Well he called me today and has all his goodies. First of all his new unused pond already has a couple of cracks in it and he does not want to put a liner in his concrete pond. I can tell you right now that there is no lining underneath the concrete. It WILL leak, I don't know how bad but it's gonna leak!

Pond was built by a Driveway crew. They Poured it, Shaped it and forgot it! It needed to be slow cured with wet cardboard and wet down at least twice a day for about a week.

I suggested I coat the pond with about 3 coats of thin-set Thats what I did to mine 5 years ago and have seen no cracks or leaks at all then again I cured mine correctly.

I also considered coating it with clored DRYVIT but don't know if it would be safe for the fish being that it's a synthetic flexible stucco compound. Don't know if it would release chemicals into the water later.

He said he wanted a water fall at one end and I suggested molding Styrofoam and coating it with thin-set and he looked at me like I was out of my mind. Only prob I see with it would be kids climbing on it and or breaking it. With the Styro I can incorporate lighting into the fall and directional lighting into the pond. We'll see.

I've also suggested a small platform along the arched side with a railing to keep the Kids n critters from drowning and maybe a bridge across the widest part.

Anyone have any experience with DRYVIT in a pond? (I'm going to research it right now) But still would like your input.

Also, any suggestions for the waterfall would be good. I still say Styro with concrete poured on it and then shaped with stucco or thin-set.

No pictures yet, the 2 times I was HANDYMANNING at his house I forgot the camera.
Thanks!

JumboJack · 07-30-2009, 11:19 PM

Dustyrose · 07-30-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumboJack

This is not going to be pretty.....

You say that everytime.

hungry4knowhow · 07-30-2009, 11:24 PM

MZ-HANDYMAN · 07-30-2009, 11:26 PM

Please!!!
Stay on the topic!

These idiots never contribute to (ANYTHING!) I could care less what they think or say so don't quote or reply to them. I have about 12 of them on ignore and when you quote them it defeats the purpose.

JumboJack · 07-30-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ-HANDYMAN

You guys are a friggin joke!

Funny...I was thinking the same thing.

Mike Finley · 07-30-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ-HANDYMAN

Please!!!
Stay on the topic!

These idiots never contribute to (ANYTHING!) I could care less what they think or say so don't quote or reply to them. I have about 12 of them on ignore and when you quote them it defeats the purpose.

I thought this was about a pond or something???

God Dungit!

S. O. T. !!!!!

MZ-HANDYMAN · 07-30-2009, 11:31 PM

I just requested the thread be deleted...

Thanks for making this a waste of internet space.

CScalf · 07-30-2009, 11:40 PM

tell it to dr phil you whiney ass...

Dustyrose · 07-31-2009, 12:06 AM

So why did you delete the OP? When you do that you eliminate the opportunity for someone to offer you ligitimate conversation.

Manny, you get pissed off too easy. You come here looking for thoughts and ideas. You get mad at a little teasing and it throws your whole thread off topic EVERY TIME.

MZ-HANDYMAN · 07-31-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustyrose

So why did you delete the OP? When you do that you eliminate the opportunity for someone to offer you ligitimate conversation.

Manny, you get pissed off too easy. You come here looking for thoughts and ideas. You get mad at a little teasing and it throws your whole thread off topic EVERY TIME.

So, you blame me for their behavior before I erase an hours worth of work?

Who said I was MAD? It's more dissapointing than anything that I spend an hour trying to contribute to this forum and these clowns just screw it up within 5 minutes instead of at least trying to type something intelligent.

I don't mind a little ribbing if there is a least an effort to contribute... I seem to care more about this forum than most.

Look at the time stamps of the immediate posts after the OP
Just for you I put it back!

JumboJack · 07-31-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ-HANDYMAN

So, you blame me for their behavior before I erase an hours worth of work?

Who said I was MAD? It's more dissapointing than anything that I spend an hour trying to contribute to this forum and these clowns just screw it up within 5 minutes instead of at least trying to type something intelligent.

I don't mind a little ribbing if there is a least an effort to contribute... I seem to care more about this forum than most.

Just for you I put it back!

I have a client that had someone build him a KOI POND shaped like a "D" It's 30' long and the arched side is a 15' dia. arch He said it is 4' deep but I think he measured it before the concrete was poured. The arched wall is at about a 45 degree or steeper slope (very dangerous!!). Once the algae is established on the walls it will be very difficult for anyone or any creature who falls in to get out.

I can tell you right now that whomever came up with this shape was not a Pond Builder. The slope is too steep, No Liner under the Concrete and there are no shelves for shallow water plants . I know CINDER BLOCKS standing on end. The depth is the same all the way across. I estimate it at about 10k Gallons.

There were no forethoughts for Filtration, Skimmer, Entrance or Exit. There is though a drain with a Ball valve cut off at one end. He wanted me to plumb the pump to the drain on the (Outside) of the pond NO CAN DO!. I told him that for this type of pond he will need an In-Pond filter with the pump inside of the filter/bio box pumping water out to the other side where the water fall will be. I gave him the numbers to crunch for water volume surface area and depth and he ordered the filtration, pump etc on his own.

Well he called me today and has all his goodies. First of all his new unused pond already has a couple of cracks in it and he does not want to put a liner in his concrete pond. I can tell you right now that there is no lining underneath the concrete. It WILL leak, I don't know how bad but it's gonna leak!

Pond was built by a Driveway crew. They Poured it, Shaped it and forgot it! It needed to be slow cured with wet cardboard and wet down at least twice a day for about a week.

I suggested I coat the pond with about 3 coats of thin-set Thats what I did to mine 5 years ago and have seen no cracks or leaks at all then again I cured mine correctly.

I also considered coating it with clored DRYVIT but don't know if it would be safe for the fish being that it's a synthetic flexible stucco compound. Don't know if it would release chemicals into the water later.

He said he wanted a water fall at one end and I suggested molding Styrofoam and coating it with thin-set and he looked at me like I was out of my mind. Only prob I see with it would be kids climbing on it and or breaking it. With the Styro I can incorporate lighting into the fall and directional lighting into the pond. We'll see.

I've also suggested a small platform along the arched side with a railing to keep the Kids n critters from drowning and maybe a bridge across the widest part.

Anyone have any experience with DRYVIT in a pond? (I'm going to research it right now) But still would like your input.

Also, any suggestions for the waterfall would be good. I still say Styro with concrete poured on it and then shaped with stucco or thin-set.

No pictures yet, the 2 times I was HANDYMANNING at his house I forgot the camera.
Thanks!

That took an hour to type???Did you use your toes?

CrpntrFrk · 07-31-2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ-HANDYMAN

So, you blame me for their behavior before I erase an hours worth of work?

Who said I was MAD? It's more dissapointing than anything that I spend an hour trying to contribute to this forum and these clowns just screw it up within 5 minutes instead of at least trying to type something intelligent.

I don't mind a little ribbing if there is a least an effort to contribute... I seem to care more about this forum than most.

Look at the time stamps of the immediate posts after the OP
Just for you I put it back!

If you notice most of the guys who "disappoint" you have been here three times as long and have ten times as many posts. So just by looking at the numbers it seems you are the one screwing up their forum.

thom · 07-31-2009, 08:20 AM

I don't know if it's still available, quickrete once sold a waterproof fiber reinforced plaster. I used it on a few fountain bases. That should help. Concrete is porous so even without cracks it will leak.

As for the waterfall, why not do natural stone? Just mortar it in place over a waterproof base that drains into the pond.

I don't know why an external swimming pool type pump wouldn't work. Pump it through a filter then up to the waterfall and back into the pond.

On my pond I use a tall cartridge filter with the standard filter element removed and Matala installed in its place. It works better than other filters I've tried. ( http://matalasale.com/ ).

6stringmason · 07-31-2009, 09:07 AM

Theres a product called fossilcrete that my meet your expectations.

Contact a decorative concrete supplier or contractor in your area.

Cdat · 07-31-2009, 09:41 AM

I'd be more worried about the pond settling and further cracking whatever you top coat it with since it wasn't installed correctly in the 1st place and now it becomes your problem. As for the waterfall, some wire/metal reinforcement underneath would be better then straight styrofoam. Won't concrete eat into styrofoam?

As a side note since this looks more like a DIY sort of thing then professional, my koi pond's waterfall, that I threw together, I used an old kids slide covered in metal lathe and then I dipped insulation batting into wet 'crete and more or less used it like paper-mache'. Then I used some tools and sculpted it to look like rocks and then a little concrete stains of different shades over that and a sealer to top it off. Still looks great a couple of years later and we have those nasty freeze/thaw cycles we go through, so it does work.

Polarisxcho · 07-31-2009, 10:06 AM

Hi guys. Long time lurker with 20 plus yrs experience with Dryvit installation.

DO NOT use Dryvit finish under water. It behaves like latex paint in that it dries rather than cures. If allowed to be in continous contact with water it will be in a softened state. It wont be soft to the touch but it will be easy to scrape and peel. This is why window sills and the tops of parapets made with Dryvit must always have a minimum slope to shed water.

I don't have the solution but I hope this helps. Now, back to lurking.

Jmfocus · 07-31-2009, 11:23 AM

With no liner, this pond will always be a problem. Concrete is old tech. Refer him to a landscape contractor who specializes in ponds. These days ponds are built without concrete. Real boulders and rocks are preferred now. Looks completely natural.

wallmaxx · 07-31-2009, 12:56 PM

10,000 gallons = 1336.8055556 cubic feet of water

1 Cu. ft of water weighs = 62.42796 pounds

EQUALS = 83,454 pounds or 41.7 tons I hope its on good ground.

Cdat · 07-31-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallmaxx

10,000 gallons = 1336.8055556 cubic feet of water

1 Cu. ft of water weighs = 62.42796 pounds

EQUALS = 83,454 pounds or 41.7 tons I hope its on good ground.

Well of course it is. Those driveway guys were licensed and experienced...

07-30-2009, 11:14 PM	#1
MZ-HANDYMAN View Profile MZ-HANDYMAN Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (356) Photos (138) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Custom Home Remodeling 30+ yrs Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 356	10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND I have a client that had someone build him a KOI POND shaped like a "D" It's 30' long and the arched side is a 15' dia. arch He said it is 4' deep but I think he measured it before the concrete was poured. The arched wall is at about a 45 degree or steeper slope (very dangerous!!). Once the algae is established on the walls it will be very difficult for anyone or any creature who falls in to get out. I can tell you right now that whomever came up with this shape was not a Pond Builder. The slope is too steep, No Liner under the Concrete and there are no shelves for shallow water plants . I know CINDER BLOCKS standing on end. The depth is the same all the way across. I estimate it at about 10k Gallons. There were no forethoughts for Filtration, Skimmer, Entrance or Exit. There is though a drain with a Ball valve cut off at one end. He wanted me to plumb the pump to the drain on the (Outside) of the pond NO CAN DO!. I told him that for this type of pond he will need an In-Pond filter with the pump inside of the filter/bio box pumping water out to the other side where the water fall will be. I gave him the numbers to crunch for water volume surface area and depth and he ordered the filtration, pump etc on his own. Well he called me today and has all his goodies. First of all his new unused pond already has a couple of cracks in it and he does not want to put a liner in his concrete pond. I can tell you right now that there is no lining underneath the concrete. It WILL leak, I don't know how bad but it's gonna leak! Pond was built by a Driveway crew. They Poured it, Shaped it and forgot it! It needed to be slow cured with wet cardboard and wet down at least twice a day for about a week. I suggested I coat the pond with about 3 coats of thin-set Thats what I did to mine 5 years ago and have seen no cracks or leaks at all then again I cured mine correctly. I also considered coating it with clored DRYVIT but don't know if it would be safe for the fish being that it's a synthetic flexible stucco compound. Don't know if it would release chemicals into the water later. He said he wanted a water fall at one end and I suggested molding Styrofoam and coating it with thin-set and he looked at me like I was out of my mind. Only prob I see with it would be kids climbing on it and or breaking it. With the Styro I can incorporate lighting into the fall and directional lighting into the pond. We'll see. I've also suggested a small platform along the arched side with a railing to keep the Kids n critters from drowning and maybe a bridge across the widest part. Anyone have any experience with DRYVIT in a pond? (I'm going to research it right now) But still would like your input. Also, any suggestions for the waterfall would be good. I still say Styro with concrete poured on it and then shaped with stucco or thin-set. No pictures yet, the 2 times I was HANDYMANNING at his house I forgot the camera. Thanks! Last edited by MZ-HANDYMAN; 07-31-2009 at 12:25 AM.

07-30-2009, 11:19 PM	#2
JumboJack View Profile JumboJack Doofenshmirtz Evil Inc. Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,660) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Doofenshmirtz Evil Inc. Trade: GC Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lakewood CA. Posts: 3,660	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND __________________ in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber Last edited by JumboJack; 07-30-2009 at 11:29 PM.

07-30-2009, 11:24 PM	#4
hungry4knowhow View Profile hungry4knowhow Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (58) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: General Contractor Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 58	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND

07-30-2009, 11:26 PM	#5
MZ-HANDYMAN View Profile MZ-HANDYMAN Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (356) Photos (138) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Custom Home Remodeling 30+ yrs Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 356	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND Please!!! Stay on the topic! These idiots never contribute to (ANYTHING!) I could care less what they think or say so don't quote or reply to them. I have about 12 of them on ignore and when you quote them it defeats the purpose.

07-30-2009, 11:31 PM	#8
MZ-HANDYMAN View Profile MZ-HANDYMAN Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (356) Photos (138) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Custom Home Remodeling 30+ yrs Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 356	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND I just requested the thread be deleted... Thanks for making this a waste of internet space. Last edited by MZ-HANDYMAN; 07-31-2009 at 12:19 AM.

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07-30-2009, 11:40 PM	#9
CScalf View Profile CScalf Official CT Greeter! Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (590) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Official CT Greeter! Trade: General Construction Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canton IL Posts: 590	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND tell it to dr phil you whiney ass... __________________ "Your problem does not constitute an emergency on my part"

07-31-2009, 12:06 AM	#10
Dustyrose View Profile Dustyrose Painter/Rehaber Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (398) Photos (6) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Painter/Rehaber Trade: Painter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toledo, OH Posts: 398	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND So why did you delete the OP? When you do that you eliminate the opportunity for someone to offer you ligitimate conversation. Manny, you get pissed off too easy. You come here looking for thoughts and ideas. You get mad at a little teasing and it throws your whole thread off topic EVERY TIME. __________________ Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them. Paul Valery

07-31-2009, 08:20 AM	#14
thom View Profile thom Thom Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,197) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Thom Trade: General Contractor/Homebuilder Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 3,197	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND I don't know if it's still available, quickrete once sold a waterproof fiber reinforced plaster. I used it on a few fountain bases. That should help. Concrete is porous so even without cracks it will leak. As for the waterfall, why not do natural stone? Just mortar it in place over a waterproof base that drains into the pond. I don't know why an external swimming pool type pump wouldn't work. Pump it through a filter then up to the waterfall and back into the pond. On my pond I use a tall cartridge filter with the standard filter element removed and Matala installed in its place. It works better than other filters I've tried. ( http://matalasale.com/ ).

07-31-2009, 09:07 AM	#15
6stringmason View Profile 6stringmason Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,021) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: masonry Join Date: May 2005 Location: Green Bay, WI Posts: 2,021	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND Theres a product called fossilcrete that my meet your expectations. Contact a decorative concrete supplier or contractor in your area. __________________ Kamps Masonry & Concrete Countertop Design Green Bay, WI 920-680-3195 Visit our website @ http://www.concretecountertopsdesign.com/

07-31-2009, 09:41 AM	#16
Cdat View Profile Cdat egotistical prick Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,633) Photos (9) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity egotistical prick Trade: Wood Inlay Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Swartz Creek, Michigan Posts: 2,633	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND I'd be more worried about the pond settling and further cracking whatever you top coat it with since it wasn't installed correctly in the 1st place and now it becomes your problem. As for the waterfall, some wire/metal reinforcement underneath would be better then straight styrofoam. Won't concrete eat into styrofoam? As a side note since this looks more like a DIY sort of thing then professional, my koi pond's waterfall, that I threw together, I used an old kids slide covered in metal lathe and then I dipped insulation batting into wet 'crete and more or less used it like paper-mache'. Then I used some tools and sculpted it to look like rocks and then a little concrete stains of different shades over that and a sealer to top it off. Still looks great a couple of years later and we have those nasty freeze/thaw cycles we go through, so it does work.

07-31-2009, 10:06 AM	#17
Polarisxcho View Profile Polarisxcho Registered User Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Registered User Trade: General Contractor Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND Hi guys. Long time lurker with 20 plus yrs experience with Dryvit installation. DO NOT use Dryvit finish under water. It behaves like latex paint in that it dries rather than cures. If allowed to be in continous contact with water it will be in a softened state. It wont be soft to the touch but it will be easy to scrape and peel. This is why window sills and the tops of parapets made with Dryvit must always have a minimum slope to shed water. I don't have the solution but I hope this helps. Now, back to lurking.

07-31-2009, 11:23 AM	#18
Jmfocus View Profile Jmfocus Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (37) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Landscaping Join Date: May 2009 Location: Santee, Ca Posts: 37	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND With no liner, this pond will always be a problem. Concrete is old tech. Refer him to a landscape contractor who specializes in ponds. These days ponds are built without concrete. Real boulders and rocks are preferred now. Looks completely natural.

07-31-2009, 12:56 PM	#19
wallmaxx View Profile wallmaxx I used to think so....... Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,203) Photos (6) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity I used to think so....... Trade: My words are OPINIONS and hold no REAL value. 2012 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: WA State Posts: 2,203	Re: 10,000 Gal +/- KOI POND 10,000 gallons = 1336.8055556 cubic feet of water 1 Cu. ft of water weighs = 62.42796 pounds EQUALS = 83,454 pounds or 41.7 tons I hope its on good ground.

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