1 Coat Vs. 3 Coat Stucco Finishing

janrickey

Here in Claifornia a lot of stucco work is being done with the 1 coat method. They use 1" foam with chicken wire over it and then 1 sprayed on layer of stucco. This is the NORMAL stucco finish for custom homes now.
You are screwed if you live on a golf course as every ball that hits your house will put a dimple in your stucco. Kids on a bike or trike? All it takes is them running into the house and you have another hole. Most of the houses I have looked at had damage to the stucco even before the house was sold. We saw one home that had the 1 layer stucco finish and woodpeckers did major damage to the finish. That wouldn't happen with the traditional 3 coat stucco finish.
I was just wondering what kind of stucco work is being done in different states. Regardless of the cost difference, we only do the 3 coat finish. It's pretty amazing the shortcuts some will take!

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When your work speaks for itself, don’t interrupt!

Jan

thom

I'm surprised they do the "chicken wire" with one coat. What I've seen is an "adhesive coat" on styrofoam, fiberglass fabric embedded and troweled then a texture. counts as one coat because it's all done at one time and all done while wet.

Standare for residences here is a two coat on lath (chicken wire) brown coat with embedded glass fibers which is wet cured then a color finish coat. Some of us use a synthetic top coat but that costs a little more.

concretemasonry

That one coat system may be accepted in California, would not fly elsewhwere.

Obviously, the 3 coat is the best you can get. In some areas, they allow a modified 3 coat system that actually has the third coat applied the same day on the partially cured second coat.

The use of synthetic stucco over styrofoam with or without "chicken wire" is just a chicken's way of getting around using the term EIFS. Many areas will not allow EIFS over woof frame construction. The historic problems ranged from adhesion to cracks, water penetration and finally mold because of the inability to breathe. This problem was increased by the documented poor installation of windows by unskilled personnel.

Because of the horrible performance of EIFS, we now have phased inspection of ALL stucco in some suburbs even though we were did not have much of the EIFS problems like other areas (EIFS was not accepted by the old-line contractors.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

In_Mexifornia

I'm in California and i've seen many jobs with EIFS, but the guys we use for stucco still do the 3 coat system(scratch, brown, and finish coats) over two layers of paper and lath. Matter of fact they were putting the first coat on one of our houses today.

Anyone know what the cost difference is between the two?

hrscammisa

NV has three coats and a dry time in between coats so it wont crack

concretemasonry

Some areas will allow a modified 3 coat sytem where the first two coats may be applied the same day, but allowed to set up before the second application (long day).

EIFS may not be allowed over wood frame in many areas due to restrictions based on past problems (moisture related), performance and difficulty to ensure proper controls and application. Poor window installations become very obvious and contribute heavily to the problems. In the restricted areas, it is allowed on masonry walls since masonry have the ablity to handle the moisture associated problems (mold, rot).

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

birdogron

You know, the biggest problem with the described one coat system is spraying the one coat. Did they trowel the first coat and then spray the dash? If not and they sprayed only, the worse part is looking down the side of the wall and noticing the area closest to the ground is sprayed the thickest because they didn't darby it across, just down. I'll bet you can even see chicken wire under this contractor's proud workmanship. He'll call it the new look of course. I remember a couple of one coat jobs you could rub your finger through. Mixed wrong so it's easier to trowel. I'm in CA too. Three coat offers sheer strength. Contractors like the one coat here because when a tractor runs through the wall, (or hammer strike) the painted stucco is easy to fix because unpainted color coat is difficult to patch. I've got an idea. Do a nice job, hire good subs and these things might not happen so much. There .. .........now I'm off my soap box.

DuctTape4Ever

A little stucco education for all of you (Some more than others).

The 'one-coat' stucco system noted IS actually a 2 coat process (1 base coat, which may be hand applied or mechanically applied using a plaster pump, and the finish coat, which can range in many different texture types and can either be job formulated (using cement, lime and sand), pre-blended 'stucco', or an acrylic based finish (as is used on the EIFS systems noted above).

I have dealt with 'one-coat' stucco using all of the finish types I have noted above, as well as the standard 3-coat (which, by the way, does NOT satisfy any required shear strength, although there ARE municipalities were increased nailing of the lath at the plate lines does satisfy this) and I too agree that the 3-coat is a better system, with regard to strength and durability of the overall stucco system.

With this said though, I'd also like to enlighten you all on a few stucco facts.

While I believe the one-coat stucco does NOT offer quite the boost in R-values that some of the manufacturer's note (especially with the standard white expanded polystyrene, which tends to lose it's inherent insulative properties when left exposed to direct sunlight / UV - which is evidenced by the 'yellowing' of the foam, which some of you might have noticed - Although the extruded polystyrene, typically referenced as DOW foam, does perform much better and loses very little of it's R-value due to exposure), in some areas (such as Arizona) home builders are provided substantial tax credits for providing 'energy efficient homes', and as such it is THEY who specify the use of the one-coat system, and it is NOT simply a matter of the Subcontractor attempting to 'cut corners'. Likewise, as one-coat stucco can easily be applied by hand, it is better 'geared' for those areas where home building is more widely spaced, or sequencing does not allow for adjacent structures to receive stucco at the same time (as it is simply inefficient to use a plaster pump for much less than 300 sq yds of wall surface, and applying 3-coat by hand is grueling process). I will say this, I have worked on many projects where the one-coat stucco performed just as well as 3-coat, but what made the difference was the craftsmen, not necessarily the system.

In closing, I hope that I have not ruffled anyones feathers, I just felt these things should be noted.

As we all are WELL aware, in any trade, there are those that do 'cut corners' and take every advantage that they can to do the minimum amount of work, but in general, those individuals do not last very long in business.

cleveman

I've used two coats of a product I believe to be called Surewall on concrete block. It works best over the light weight block, because the iron spots won't burn through.

The first coat is gray (it's less expensive). The second coat is whatever you want.

This is a fiber-reinforced product and hard as hell. The oldest installation I was involved with is 20 years old and fine.

Obviously, you don't strike your joints with this product. You just cut them off.

You can mix it in an ordinary mortar mixer.

You are supposed to be able to use this product over dry-set concrete block. Never tried it that way and I think it is for hobby-projects only, but could be of interest for some outdoor kitchen projects.

I pity the fool that paints over this product.

smeyer

EIFS inspector

As with any finish system, the degree of applicators is the key. The 2006 building code, used in San Antonio and Dallas, not sure of other markets, requires inspection for commercial under 1704 Specials Inspections unless applied over masonry, concrete or a weather resistive barrier with drainage. Even with that, installers still screw it up. A good source is the ES service by the ICC (International Code Council). EIFS in general, is an excellent product but in my experiences, many GC rely on the sub. So the building gets a 1 yr warranty, then you have issues of sealant faiure. Even in what is specified in the CD, the applicators don't always follow. Not all barriers are weather resistive and will flow water. Manufacturers do not warrant installation, only failure
of their prodfuct.

sm

Renegade_2k

As you can see in my profile, I live in Southern AZ. Here, we have MANY "professional" contractors that use the one coat system over foam and chicken wire. Yes, it cracks, dents easily, and doesn't hold up well over the long haul. I've seen many new homes built this way. Unfortunately, most of the General Contractors here allow this as it means more for their bottom line, and hopefully the faults won't surface until AFTER the warranty expires, and if it does, the common excuse is that "the house is settling, and this will continue for a while"..

In the meantime, they continue to build other homes. Once satisfied that they have made their fortune, they close shop, usually file bankruptcy, then move elsewhere to start over under another alias. One guy simply sold the business to his brother and they (together) changed the name, and kept on building in the area!

I've seen houses built with studs on 24 inch centers, concrete poured with barely a 4 inch pad (inside of the footer area), copper piping buried in the concrete pad, etc, etc.. I once did some electrical in a persons home as they were remodeling. This was just a simple replacement of the cheap outlets and switches that were initially installed, and wore out after about 5 years. Some of the outlets wouldn't even securely hold a plug! The pigtails in the electrical boxes were barely 5 inches long, and the neutrals were too short to connect to the outlet, so the "professional" used the grounds as the neutral.. They go back to the same place.. right?..

I'm so sick of seeing things like this.

CO762

There's enough european stucco'd units out there still to ensure a lot of work fixing them. At least there is around here. The only concern is how long will the HOs have money to pay out to fix their units............

dgarton

I am a contractor and a home inspector. I am more familiar with the 3 coat application so when looking at a home with the 1 coat app. and I see a number of cracks (more then there should be) is this fixable with a good paint job or could this be a problem down the road