Historic Code Help

Jason Whipple

You jeopardize the status of the entire community by making exceptions, and possibly grant money for others! Why?

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Deadhead Derek

Uh, no, we jeopardize nothing by implementing our code, which gives discretion to the commission to evaluate the applications as presented. The State of Oregon recognizes the Sec/Int standards as guidelines, not the rule.We don't regulate paint colors either...are we undermining the fabric of time and space in that action as well?
Seriously, we have a district of 700 to 1200 sf workers houses that, up until impending dramatic neighborhood redevelopment plans led to our banding together to protect them, were being leveled for the dirt. now we have an new, higher owner occupied to rental ratio, and the homes, though modest are coming back to life. In New England, there are homes of hundreds of years of age. Many are prime example of vernacular architecture. the oldest in the district we have is my house, built in 1912. You want to beat on a decision made by a commission of experts chosen by the State Historic Preservation Office for their expertise, how about the fct that we have homes in the district that have on them Cement Asbestos Board. as the original siding...Like for like , you were saying? Before casting a cloud over something I have given a minimum of ten hours a week, for just shy of a decade as a volunteer, Why not ask about, and accept that not all regions have the same standards, codes and restrictions.
The idea that grant money for one owner would be withheld due to the actions of an adjacent owner is misguided. District does not mean museum. In our code, the first principle is the recognition that properties change over time, and that the adaptive reuse so as to not run afoul of Oregon's land use laws regarding sprawl and urban growth is part of the balancing act we do to maintain our sites of significance, whilst respecting the rights of property owners. We don't all live in Sturbridge village or the like.
The other thing is that the idea of jeopardizing the district is off the mark, as once a district, shy of a fire destroying the majority of it at once, forever shall it be a district.

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tinner666

"saw the siding as any easier change out later."

Hardie 'looks' historic and will mitigate any further damage, and the plan calls for it to be removed later. It's a temp fix the way I read this. And looks better for the distric than a trap. Which is the current look in Petersburg, Va.

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Frank Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va.

neolitic

I like the idea that the "perfect"
shouldn't get in the way of the
"possible."


One of our historic districts
didn't really take off until they
allowed the "near historic"
restoration and conversion of
an old glove factory into condos.
Brought in life and life begat life.

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(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

Jason Whipple

Nothing, anywhere in the Historic Preservation Briefs supports your "committees" decision of allowing cement siding on a Registered Historic building. You claim to be an expert so I'm sure you know that.

It wouldn't fly in any places I've ever worked on. I'm not saying you're not doing a good thing by improving or protecting these old homes, but your reference to working under the guidelines of the department of the interior is false. You either do or you don't. In this case, you don't.

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Deadhead Derek

Let deal with the bold statements one at a time after I ask you this: did you read what I wrote? did you understand what it said?

1. Hist Pres briefs are technical publications put out to serve as a guideline for a restoration plan, though with a key difference as they are not codified language here.

2. I don't claim anything. I am the Chairman of my County Landmarks Commission, and have been for the last three years, and a member of the same since around 2000.

3. Every jurisdiction has the ability to regulated through code to whatever level they see fit to codify. The standard is that they may not be less restrictive than the appellate level (whatever that may be) but more so.

4.Did you not understand hat the State of Oregon does not recognize the Sec Int Standards as code, but our own codes. We reference the standards, but the difference is our code says shall and may, and the guidelines say recommended, and not recommended. Write codes for a bit and you will see which has the ability to stand up to appeal following a quasi-judicial land use review; and which has no teeth to aid in protecting an historic asset.

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ScipioAfricanus

Hi Derek, I was wondering what your jurisdiction's policy is when an H.O. wants to do some brick or stone work for the front yard of their contributing historic home?
The reason I ask is because I do a lot of work for people in the historic district of Orange here in Orange County CA. and we ofttimes run afoul of our local planning department. I sometimes design updated brick or stone columns, porches, planting areas etc. but because the design standards are so stringent we are all too often shot down and have to resort to building in concrete only because that is what the original material for that house was.
I think this is draconian because the homes where original constructed to be as inexpensive as possible for the time and to allow the residents to modify or upgrade at some later date.

Thanks.

Andy.

Deadhead Derek

I juxtaposition to the recent postings on the replacement of missing elements, adding new elements is a different animal. to introduce a new element, first and foremost is the fact that the burden of proof is on the applicant to show the appropriateness of the permissions sought. I would look to historic photos of the neighborhood, only within the confines of the Hist. Dist. boundaries, and see if there is an historic model that mirrors the plan you have developed. Material choice will be key here, and if I were to pick on Jason I would say chipped face CMU is a great historic material... I joke. My reference materials show a large variety of materials; brick ashlar faced stone, marble ( though usually on larger houses) tuff or sandstone and the like. The other key is the massing. Does a stone column fit the scale of the house where a 4x4 was before? that is where find supporting documentation in the area for historic examples will aid you. The code we work with does not show that changes may never happen to structures or sites, though in some areas that is not the case. Look to the code in your area particularly how it defines new additions and alteration to historic properties. Send me a link to the code, as I enjoy reading what other municipalities do and don't do, if you have one.

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Jason Whipple

Here's a good reference to code in regards to fire safety issues in Historic buildings. We always seem to have the most problems with this when looking for the C/O in a Public building that is registered as Historic.

Even though the code is written, it seems to still be up for interpretation by the life safety code enforcer. I usually step back from this fight and let the Architect defend his position.

http://historicvermont.org/general/L...FieldGuide.pdf

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Jason Whipple

As for our debate Derek. I can honestly say that houses built during the time that Asbestos siding was used would not be old enough to be considered Historic in New England. I may be disconnected from your circumstances because of that.

I'm not at all trying to belittle your accomplishments, just debating your methods. I'm always happy to see old, run down communities given new life by any means necessary.

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Deadhead Derek

1958. based on that standard any home built on or before 1958 is now eligible for nomination to the National Registry. Levittown for example. In theory, aluminum siding and aluminum windows are now protected elements per the Sec. of the Int. scary thought.

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Jason Whipple

Yes it is! Do they still make that stuff?

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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Deadhead Derek

not as far as I know. could be an interesting challenge for a restoration project. I can always mill siding to match, just how many coke cans would I have to melt down for a siding job like that.....
sidenote: obviously the reporter is gone...

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