ServiceMagic??? Does It Work For Us Flooring Installers

J DoubleD FLoor

Look before you start hounding me about this. I KNOW WORD OF MOUTH is the best advertising. But, When you've been an installer for many years for someone else, and you branch out on your own; you have to try almost everything to get the business, right? ... I've tried contacting GC's, flooring companies, Ad's in the paper, Contractors.com, craigslist, Ad's in the paper, etc. And I was wonder if any of you OL'Pro's ... lol ... have used ServiceMagic? And if so.... Am I wasting my money?

By the way Donedat ... before you start the door-to-door ... I just can't see that working for Flooring.

Thanks to any of you that reply, I appreciate the input.

PrecisionFloors

My experience with them is you get ALOT of tire-kickers...not saying there aren't any qualified leads but the ratio wasn't good enough for me to justify the expense. Just my .02.

Oh and before you say door-to-door won't work for flooring....some of my best jobs have come from neighbors of current customers....They saw me outside making cuts or loading up old carpet, etc. and came over to ask what I was doing, one thing leads to another, and boom another job. Point is, that business was there. I got it by being lucky, but whose to say that I wouldn't have gotten it if I had knocked my way in? Thankfully I am past the stage of needing to knock on doors, but if I had to, I would. Heck, all you have to lose is time (which if you're knockin on doors for work, you have plenty of) I still make it a point to make eye contact and greet all of my clients neighbors, friends, family that may stop over, etc....you never know where your next job will come from.

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Precision Flooring
(772) 237-9900
Tile, Hardwood, Laminate, and Resilient
Installation, Sales & Repair - "We do it right the FIRST time"

Donedat

You got to do everything within your power to get jobs. But (and that's a big BUT), you have to draw the line somewhere and I refuse to work for cut anyone else accept builders and homeowners. I never sub out to carpet companies, kitchen and bath places or bulk flooring marketing companies...unless of course, I get really hungry.

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Floorwizard

Find material only flooring store's and see if they have a list they distribute to clients for referals

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GridRunnerFloor

the local lowes here is almost busyer then local flooring shops due to there specials etc and they only have 1 flooring installer currently that is totaly swamped. they claim they are busy in the winters as well.. but dont all flooring shops claim that? might benifit you to take some lowes jobs till you get recognition factor going.

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J DoubleD FLoor

Well, due to all that I've read and what you recently happened to me with swindler magic ... I've cancelled the account.

Not smart to send me my first lead that is for a carpet remove and reinstall ... I told them only HARDWOOD AND LAMINATE ... GEESH. Guess they've never heard the put the best foot forward saying.

So here's the update:

I called them about this ... and they CREDITED my account and I told them I want to preview my leads before I take them and am Charge for them ..... Just so you all know ... At the beginning I was told they don't do that .... At that point ... I was like ok ... i'll give it a chance.

Then the NEXT damn day:

They call because I refused a charge on my account for the lead that was wrong the guy had the nerve to tell me that I needed to pay for the lead before the credit is applied. I told him to kiss my arse and cancel the account ... You can imagine the sailor talk that ensued after .... So I'm going to cancel the account ... I'm out 100.00 but was a learning experience.

And the Lowe's installing thing ... Trust me the customers that you get from them Complain about everything thing and lowe's will make you pay for mistakes that they make.

My fiancee is the Installed sales manager at my local Lowe's

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Quality is not expensive ... It's PRICELESS !!!
www.neoflooringco.com

GridRunnerFloor

any more insider info on lowes installations? all i know about it so far is they get a lead and they send out installers to measure up the job and then they dib out the material and have them go and install it.

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My Father Taught Me How To Survive But My Mother Taught Me How To Live!

FLOORING GURU

Ive grossed about 15,000 dollars within the last 3 months from servicemagic. The way you get leads suck, you cant preview or pick and choose the ones you want and most of the time you get about 7 crappy leads to 2 good ones. Im paying over 200 dollars a week for leads and sometimes I wonder if its really worth it. I live in Philly PA and work here is very competitive. Theres always someone out there that will do it cheaper. Plus the leads that you get, the people are pretty internet savvy and they think they can get grade a hardwood flooring for 2.50 a sq and installation for 1.65??!! I start out at 3.25 and then negotiate depending on if they are buying the material or if Im supplying it. Right now Im really jammed up because I stopped sub-contracting for a couple of outfits and tried to base my business strictly from leads,craigs list, and word of mouth. Well sad to say its not working, Along with 2,000 dollars in payroll that I cant even pay my guys because the jobs I under-bid took way too long to finish. Its not my guys fault though its the customers asking them to take and old air conditoner and maybe some little shelves that she was gonna throw out anyway oh and maybe because she didnt want to pay for the 350 pnds of patch and latex to smooth out the area of the floor in the basement we were doing. Man I hate this business, sometimes I sit here and cry just because I feel like I F$#ked up so bad. Im way too nice and people take advantage of that. Another customer I got from S.M. had me rip down an entire backsplash that I did which included replacing all the drywall that came with it. Now she says she wants a different design because we were doing a square diamond inset in the center of 4 obtuse diamonds and everything had to be cut by eye so the cuts for the inset werent exactly perfect. Everyone I show the pictures to and even the rest of her entire family were asking why the hell are you ripped all that down??????? Well now Ive been on that job for an extra 4 days ya know about 4-5 hours here and there when you get a chance. Replacing the entire wall of sheetrock was the worst,on top of that I couldnt use joint compound because it was taking 2 days to dry! I found out real fast how quick plaster paris dries so every 5 minutes I had to mix another bucket. Sorry for the short novel I think I needed to get this stuff off my chest and it seemed like you guys might be the right lads to talk to about it. cmflooring.net nothing exciting but its some of my work just so you know Im not some joke with a trowel and a pack of newport.lol CM

Double-A

Your 15K over 3 months, minus your 200 per week expense works out to be 140 dollars a day income, based on 5 day week, 4 week month.

If you're hand cutting insets, then you need to make allowance for that in your price, so you can do a dry layout and get written client approval. That's the time to have a client tell you they have a problem with it, not when its stuck to the wall.

Your work looks nice, but your website looks a mess (sorry, just being honest here). You have phrases like, "This is where we will be posting pics of our ceramic work" right under the title "Ceramic Installation Photos".

Your crew looks young, and eager, but your job site photos of them looks like a Chinese fire drill.

Next nice job you do, have them all wear a plain colored t-shirt or logo shirt (if you have any with your company name on it) and take a shot of the crew standing proudly on their work, not hunched over installing it, with empty boxes, wrappers (trash) and tools scattered about.

Now, to business. Payroll every Friday will pucker your arse from now till you die, unless you learn to start respecting yourself and your clients. In a cut-throat world you have two choices, cut more throats than the other guy, or adopt a new approach.

When your client is only paying you enough to make payroll, buy material, pay Service Masters for a lead or ten with nothing left over, you start to resent them.

For every dollar extra you have to spend that wasn't budgeted in the bid in the first place, you take it personally. You start to seethe, then get tempted to think bad thoughts about your client and call them names in your mind. This turns into a frustrated attitude and the client sees it. So does your crew. They get nervous and worried, afraid to make a mistake. You're constantly afraid of any screw ups or unforeseen problems. "Damn! That's gonna cost me another $100.00!"

Now, when your clients pay you enough to cover all your bills, provide fully paid insurance for your guys, pay them a living wage and pay you a high 5 digit or even a 6 digit income, a vacation, a retirement, etc., you start to love your clients. You can't do enough for them. You're easy going, and interested when problems crop up. They become challenges, not the 'enemy'.

How do you do this? How do you charge enough to pay this kind of money, make this kind of profit and learn to relax doing it?

Simple, you quit selling on price. You sell service, elegance, grace, beauty, satisfaction, investment grade flooring, custom art in ceramic tile. You sell your crew, "I swear I have 5 Opie Taylors working for me.", "My crew is the London Philharmonic of flooring."

You have to learn, research, and decide. Learn what it takes to sell service, by researching how to sell service, and decide to never sell a job on price again.

Once you promise yourself to never be the lowest priced flooring company in town and start making changes to insure you're not, you'll start to see the frustration melt away. You'll be eager to start work in the morning and excited when you head off to your local supplier to order materials.

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

PrecisionFloors

Bravo Double-A, great post! Guru you were just given for free, what many take half of their working lives to figure out...at great expense, stress, and frustration. Print this post, laminate it, and stick it somewhere you will see it every day before you head out the door.

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Precision Flooring
(772) 237-9900
Tile, Hardwood, Laminate, and Resilient
Installation, Sales & Repair - "We do it right the FIRST time"

Gordo

Nice post Double -A!

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Looks like some pros were here.

J DoubleD FLoor

Amazing response Double-A and very much appreciated

__________________
Quality is not expensive ... It's PRICELESS !!!
www.neoflooringco.com

FLOORING GURU

I was mildly impressed with this guys comments but the longer I sat on it the angrier I became. The comment about my crew was uncalled for if you ask me. If thats your way of trying to get people to laugh then you have sadly mistaken a insult as a joke. I do have custom shirts with my name and logo on them, in fact everyone in that pic is wearing my shirts except the guy with the black shirt on. I read him the riot act that same day for not wearing the company shirt to work. I dont know what a chinese firedrill is but if you look a little closer at that pic you commented on you can see they are all actually working very hard. Giving someone advice is one thing but taking pot shots at them while your doing it kinda kills the point of the advice. Obviously, or I wouldnt be writting this lol! Oh the 15k I made was just from service magic not including 2 accounts I sub for every day on top of my own jobs. When the last time you kicked in a 300 yard house with a helper? We can get a 300+ yard house (Toll Brothers mini mansion) done in 7 hours or about 12 hours with just me, one mechanic, and one helper. If thats a chinese firedrill type of attitude or if thats what it looks like then so be it.

I just wanted to add that I live in Philadelphia PA and it has become more competitive then I have ever seen in 16 years. People are doing everything here dirt cheap and they actually do really good work! $1.65 a sqft for residential 3/4" hardwood installs>??!! A buck and a quarter for laminate, thats why its so hard to make a profit any more.

Teetorbilt

I have a friend in So Philly. How do you make ends meet at those prices?

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You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

PrecisionFloors

Speed has nothing to do with ability or professional results. When is the last time you POWERSTRETCHED in a 300yd house? I will admit I am a hard surface guy and do not do carpet...but even I know a true professional carpet mechanic does not "kick in" a 300yd anything, and if you showed up to my jobsite with out one you would be gone. Lose the attitude and you might learn something. Don't ask for advice if you are not prepared for ALL responses. The info given above was dead on the money and was outstanding advice imho.

__________________
Precision Flooring
(772) 237-9900
Tile, Hardwood, Laminate, and Resilient
Installation, Sales & Repair - "We do it right the FIRST time"

Double-A

There was no insult intended in any of my comments. Your crew does look young and eager, two very important qualities to most clients these days. Their work will attest to their talents. My point with the comment was to point out what you may not be seeing in your jobsite photos.

You may be seeing the guys you work with, hard at work, doing the same fabulous job you expect of them on each project, but to someone that doesn't see them in action each day, it just looks like a messy jobsite, with people everywhere, and no way to tell if progress is being made.

If anything is to blame here, its the photo, and that is the point of my comment. Its not flattering, its not informative. It doesn't show enough detail of your work to critique it, (and most homeowners wouldn't know much from a photo anyway). So, why not 'stage' a photo so everyone can see the good looking crew you have, standing proudly on their work?

Then its time to start wowing your clients with service, and stop lowering your price to compete with the folks that are pricing themselves out of business.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

FCPWLLC

Excellent post Double A

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