No Service Magic

mousie177 · 08-07-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARI001

This site is for professionals not home owners or diyers.

Since you're here I'll share with you a little information about Service Magic. They charge different amounts for different leads. The higher the potential cost of the job the more they charge for the lead. They tell you this up front. They also tell you that they call and screen all the leads to verify they are legit. They don't. They also tell you if the contact information is bogus they will credit back the amount. Well sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. To get them to even consider doing this you have to sit on the phone for 30 minutes or longer. Time is money you know.

Another problem with SM is a lot of home owners use it to price shop because their curious what the job would cost. They are not really interested in having work done but waste our time anyway. Then there are those that want more complicated jobs done like additions. They fill out the form saying ready for bid. We get there and ask for a set of plans and get the deer in the headlight look and say they thought we would take care of that(Note that SM does have a section for designers and architects). More wasted time and again time is money.

The companies that complain about them probably wouldn't do so if SM didn't promise more than they can deliver. It's kind of like if I was to tell you I'm going to install granite counter tops in your kitchen and you come home to find Formica that looks like granite.

That said as far as lead generation services go they are no worse or better than any of the others out there. They do also screen contractors pretty well which some of the others do not do. I use them on occasion when looking for subs out of my usual work area. I use them for the convenience factor in that they have pre-screened the contractors for me. Though I still require proof of insurance and a copy of a valid license before they set foot on a job site. So I understand why as a homeowner you would like them.

As far as the professionalism of the contractors at this site it is like everywhere else. Some are and some are not. This is a cut throat business and people that are in it get frustrated especially with home owners who look down on them, try to take them for a ride, don't pay on time or at all in some cases, and don't respect the work they do and the knowledge required to do so. With out someone to build your home where would you live? With out someone to fix your broken pipe, faulty electrical duplex, or reframe your roof after that tree came crashing through it what would you do? You would have to do it yourself and then you would understand 1/2 of the issues we have to deal with. You still would have no understanding od the business side and what it takes to make it in this industry.

Remember that some of the same contractors that frequent this site also frequent it's sister site to assist home owners and diyer's. So we can't all be that bad. This is place we can share ideas with each other, get help or advice when needed, argue (sometimes for no other reason than to argue) with each other, and vent about various things that only our peers really can relate to. So in closing if you don't like what you read here then don't come back. Unless you are going to become a legit construction proffesional posts your thoughts, questions, ideas, and whatever else on the sister site. Oh, and lighten up bit.

While i completely understand this is a contractor site... i still wanted inside information.
I appreciate your feedback about SM however if i paid 40,000 for a kitchen remodel unless that contractor spent 40,000 with SM, it looks like a return to me. Even if it took so many bad requests to get to my good request as you say... how much would you pay to get that request? How much do you spend on a 40,000 request? I need clarification please..

Jmfocus · 08-07-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidC

You are right in that we need to track all forms of advertising and lead costs. Others may disagree here but to my thinking, when we buy leads we are not advertising.

The lead service is doing the advertising and selling the results. Supposedly we are purchasing bonafide leads that have been qualified. When you buy the lead and the people won't return messages or state that they aren't interested (no need to restate the whole list) then we are buying an empty egg carton that sold as a full dozen.

There are a number of consumer complaints that also indicate the lead services are possibly not screening the contractors that well either.

The business model is based on volume and they have the volume to continue profitably in spite of the naysayers.

When we actually advertise (yellow pages and other arenas) we are attempting to bring in leads, which we then qualify and weed out the bogus on our own. The money is spent regardless of any number of leads or even none. There is no basis for a refund because we weren't promised specific results.

In my mind anyway there is a big difference between advertising and purchasing leads, they are not the same.

Good Luck
Dave

The point I make is the cost of marketing. You can pay as you go.... SM or pay up front.... yellow pages, etc. I bet that you will spend a lot more money per lead including the "not really serious" with the yellow pages. Complaining about bogus leads doesn't win this debate. You will get bogus leads no matter who you spend the dollars on.

Now back to marketing... SM is only ONE tactic that we use. It works for us. But we have lots of other tactics as well. And for whats its worth, for you naysayers.... if you can't make it work for you, then just move on!

I think that a lot of folks do no understand what a "lead" really is. A lead isn't a job. It's an opportunity. A possibility. A person who is considering purchasing what you are selling. It is not a promise of anything.

Kuba · 08-07-2009, 04:43 PM

Ok, I call this number ( 303 -963 - 7888 )That is the number coming up when these a holes call and hang up.. Just got anotherone 2 min ago..So, I return the call.. Says its so and so from service magic on the machine..If i text the number, i get an error (Error Invalid Number)This starting to piss me off real bad.

Kuba · 08-07-2009, 04:47 PM

Ok I got the name wrong.. WOman on the machine is going by Lisa Vermont with Service Magic @ 303 -963-7888If i was a woman, id scratch her eyes out

ARI001 · 08-07-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousie177

While i completely understand this is a contractor site... i still wanted inside information.
I appreciate your feedback about SM however if i paid 40,000 for a kitchen remodel unless that contractor spent 40,000 with SM, it looks like a return to me. Even if it took so many bad requests to get to my good request as you say... how much would you pay to get that request? How much do you spend on a 40,000 request? I need clarification please..

What kind of "insider" information are you looking for and what makes you think you are entitled to it?

Mike Finley · 08-07-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousie177

While i completely understand this is a contractor site... i still wanted inside information.
I appreciate your feedback about SM however if i paid 40,000 for a kitchen remodel unless that contractor spent 40,000 with SM, it looks like a return to me. Even if it took so many bad requests to get to my good request as you say... how much would you pay to get that request? How much do you spend on a 40,000 request? I need clarification please..

So I take it you are an employee of somebody and draw a pay check. If let's say you get a $2000 a week pay check and you went out to eat and the waiter presented you with a bill for a steak dinner, a fish dinner, 1 glass of wine, an iced tea, and a piece of cheese cake for dessert and the bill was for $1990.00, you still have $10.00 left from your pay check, so that was cool right?

You do understand that a $40K kitchen, there are cabinets, materials, labor, all direct costs and indirect costs of insurance, vehicle maintenance, tool replacement, rent on the show room each month... etc...

and somewhere in there is an annual marketing budget. So just because you billed out 40K on a kitchen means you can spend $2000.00 to land it? or is there a number based in reality that is a percentage of your annual marketing budget.

You see all leads have a cost and those costs have a basis in reality.

The old, hey spend x with me and if you land just 1 job you've paid for the cost is total Bull Sh*t. Don't believe me then try this scenario on again:

Quote:

So I take it you are an employee of somebody and draw a pay check. If let's say you get a $2000 a week pay check and you went out to eat and the waiter presented you with a bill for a steak dinner, a fish dinner, 1 glass of wine, an iced tea, and a piece of cheese cake for dessert and the bill was for $1990.00, you still have $10.00 left from your pay check, so that was cool right?

DavidC · 08-07-2009, 06:22 PM

JM, your coming in late on this one and don't have a clue about what or why my stance is. I'll save you having to read all 16 pages of this exercise in futility.

First I was a client of SM, a staunch defender of theirs on their own now defunct forum. I was with them for several years and felt I got enough profitable work to pay for the crap. I was also a client of a couple of their competitors and fully admit that SM had the best results of all that I had tried.

I waded through piles of crap leads to sell a few good jobs until the quality of the leads went seriously downhill. To me, when any lead service claims that they sell qualified leads I expect to purchase contact info for someone genuinely interested in purchasing services from somebody. It is fully understood that there is no guarantee of me getting the job, that my job is to sell my company and should be fully expected that the prospect is really interested. Their info is sold (as in a product) to 3 contractors who compete for the work. Not a bad plan.

When this contact won't answer the phone, return voice messages or email, can't come to the door, explicitly tells me that they never intended to remodel, hangs up on me after delivering multiple expletives, I kinda get the idea that this lead was not qualified. I was promised a qualified lead and want a refund.

On the other side, when the lead company tells the consumer they will be contacted by 3 contractors and then they get inundated with a barrage of calls over the next week or two it is plain to see that the lead company is milking that udder until it bleeds with little concern for the contractor or consumer.

Secondly, purchasing leads is not marketing. Again, we are purchasing an opportunity to sell to a pre-qualified HO. When I market my business I am putting my name out there in the best places I can think off to entice the consumer to think of us when they wish to remodel. The lead companies are doing the marketing here to entice the consumer to call them so in turn they can sell you their product.

In the process of doing THEIR marketing SM will use your comapny name to drive consumers to their website (read that away from yours so they can charge you). When I discovered this it was really the straw that broke the camels back. Every client of theirs that purchase exact match leads and has any form of their own internet marketing is unwittingly chasing potential clients away from their own phone line and into the arms of SM who will then gladly sell you and your competition the contact info.

Every call or email that I every made to SM looking for refunds or improvements in what I consider poor customer service resulted in the same company line. Turn it around and make it the contractors fault. Chances are he needs to bone up on sales technique or get to the client faster. They will never say, sorry our bad, then honestly try to rectify. After nearly 30 years in this business I am well aware that I am capable of being in error. Also well aware that it is not likely I am always in error.

So if it works for you, great. If you don't mind being in bed with those types of pratices, what can I or anyone say. On my end, I and everyone involved in my business, take the service of our customers seriously and provide the best we can. I expect the same from the vendors that serve us.

Good luck
Dave

Bidity · 08-07-2009, 06:52 PM

Dave,

Haven't caught up yet, but I wanted to let you know that was one of the most honest and straightforward posts I've seen on the topic this far. Your points,

1) The leads are not really 'qualified' (This is interesting, but understandable. It's impossible for SM to qualify leads when their entire marketing strategy is focused on hoarding clicks from search engines)

2) The leads are re-sold, and have no specific connection with SM, and are therefore just receiving random calls

3) Manipulating previous 'exact match' customers with their own SEO and shifting that business to other customers

are exactly on point. I'll be happy to respond to how these are absolutely unchangeable from SM's perspective, but furthermore, I'm interested in hearing Shawn's response to #3. This seems a bit traitorous to previous clients.

DavidC · 08-07-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bidity

Dave,

Haven't caught up yet, but I wanted to let you know that was one of the most honest and straightforward posts I've seen on the topic this far. Your points,

1) The leads are not really 'qualified' (This is interesting, but understandable. It's impossible for SM to qualify leads when their entire marketing strategy is focused on hoarding clicks from search engines)

2) The leads are re-sold, and have no specific connection with SM, and are therefore just receiving random calls

3) Manipulating previous 'exact match' customers with their own SEO and shifting that business to other customers

are exactly on point. I'll be happy to respond to how these are absolutely unchangeable from SM's perspective, but furthermore, I'm interested in hearing Shawn's response to #3. This seems a bit traitorous to previous clients.

Thank you. Pardon my curiosity, but where is your dog in this race?

Good Luck
Dave

mousie177 · 08-09-2009, 05:51 PM

I may not completely understand the strategy... I just know we paid $40000 for our remodels and the Ross family paid 60,000 plus now are working on an addition for their new baby on the way... so it was more than just 40000 from us they lost... they lost all the word of mouth we have from our community... we live in a well sought after neighborhood but due to economy everyone is revamping what they already have. Its just sad to see that you can put certain prices on things with out really knowing what it can lead too... I can see how easy it is to submit a request through SM but there are still people looking to complete the work... its just that i thought and maybe I am wrong but SM is a source of advertising... not jobs... I took from them that it was to help gain exposure to possible clients that you may have not received through your own efforts or word of mouth? I could be wrong...

THEHANDYMAN · 08-09-2009, 06:48 PM

MOUSIE177 Not to worry I don't understand some of what I hear. SM has worked great for me and like you pointed out many times a small job has lead to a larger project that I wouldn't have heard about in any other way. Vary seldom that I won't return a call or follow up on a lead, unless is absolutely some thing I don't feel qualified for or don't have time for.

DMDesigns · 08-09-2009, 06:57 PM

I understand the need, and it does seem like SM is trying to fill it, but it just falls short everytime, as it does not think like it should. It should be free, information is free, everytime you try to regulate it and control it, you loose.

Now a Website, displaying your info is a great reason to PAY for something, but getting leads, I mean come on, I can get much better results just talking to my neighbor or people I meet at Home Desperate.

I say keep it free - and build your money through ads like Google. Cause as we all know, Google Business Listings will last a whole heck of a lot longer then SM.

Dave

Mike Finley · 08-09-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousie177

I may not completely understand the strategy... I just know we paid $40000 for our remodels and the Ross family paid 60,000 plus now are working on an addition for their new baby on the way... so it was more than just 40000 from us they lost... they lost all the word of mouth we have from our community... we live in a well sought after neighborhood but due to economy everyone is revamping what they already have. Its just sad to see that you can put certain prices on things with out really knowing what it can lead too... I can see how easy it is to submit a request through SM but there are still people looking to complete the work... its just that i thought and maybe I am wrong but SM is a source of advertising... not jobs... I took from them that it was to help gain exposure to possible clients that you may have not received through your own efforts or word of mouth? I could be wrong...

I can't really follow your writing. You sound like you are a homeowner and not a contractor, from both how you are writing and what you are writing.

So let me get this straight - you're insinuating that contractors should worry about what they are missing as in future work that could have came from some other work?

As in, drop your pants, bend over, do this one for me cheap and you'll make it up on the next one?

mrmike · 08-09-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHANDYMAN

MOUSIE177 Not to worry I don't understand some of what I hear. SM has worked great for me and like you pointed out many times a small job has lead to a larger project that I wouldn't have heard about in any other way. Vary seldom that I won't return a call or follow up on a lead, unless is absolutely some thing I don't feel qualified for or don't have time for.

I will point out again where this supporter Of SM is from= THE WEST- CO-INCIDENCE= I think not !!! Check back thru this Forum & see for yourself & it will Reveal this !!

Adam13 · 08-09-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmike

I will point out again where this supporter Of SM is from= THE WEST- CO-INCIDENCE= I think not !!! Check back thru this Forum & see for yourself & it will Reveal this !!

I think every business has it's place, no? Without some of these businesses, as stated before it sometimes leads to other jobs. I am neither a supporter, nor a hater of SM. Just an observer.

Lumpy · 08-11-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousie177

While i completely understand this is a contractor site... i still wanted inside information.
I appreciate your feedback about SM however if i paid 40,000 for a kitchen remodel unless that contractor spent 40,000 with SM, it looks like a return to me. Even if it took so many bad requests to get to my good request as you say... how much would you pay to get that request? How much do you spend on a 40,000 request? I need clarification please..

You paid 40k for a kitchen. How much did your contractor make? O.K. Now take amount and spread it over taxes, insurance, Fuel, depreciation etc.

If he cleared 10% and paid all those bills and was left with 3-4% he might have been O.K. Now, take 5 SM leads for an average of $85 of which you may have been one, DON'T YOU THINK THERE IS SOME THING WRONG?

DFW Solution · 08-23-2009, 12:30 PM

Service Magic is a rip off. Have you ever googled the phone number that service magic gives you? They whore out your company name all over the internet to get them customers that don't even match your business. (they even have us under paving and gravel) Even when you try to take over the listing they still keep their website as the contact.

Any lawyers out there? Can we start a class action against them to make them stop!?

I agree with everyone that said we are competing against ourselves when we pay them for leads.

JC

!!Furnishing · 08-29-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easymoney

LOL! I was trying to figure out what 3 expliives Mhillc used before his tank rolled off.

B!+ch, F*<k, S#!T ?!?

Publisher1 · 08-29-2009, 10:23 PM

I received two strange spam emails today that directed me . . . to servicemagic ... from a new domain with anonymous characteristics.

Checking into the issue of "servicemagic spam" it seems other bloggers have noticed that consumers' names have been resold for spam.

Not the best way to build an online reputation, in my opinion.

J F · 08-29-2009, 10:32 PM

Yes, Service Magic (or ServiceTragic, as they're more commonly known as) suck/s...

08-07-2009, 04:43 PM	#303
Kuba View Profile Kuba Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (293) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Painting - Restoration Join Date: May 2009 Location: PA Posts: 293	Re: No Service Magic Ok, I call this number ( 303 -963 - 7888 )That is the number coming up when these a holes call and hang up.. Just got anotherone 2 min ago..So, I return the call.. Says its so and so from service magic on the machine..If i text the number, i get an error (Error Invalid Number)This starting to piss me off real bad.

08-07-2009, 04:47 PM	#304
Kuba View Profile Kuba Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (293) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Painting - Restoration Join Date: May 2009 Location: PA Posts: 293	Re: No Service Magic Ok I got the name wrong.. WOman on the machine is going by Lisa Vermont with Service Magic @ 303 -963-7888If i was a woman, id scratch her eyes out

08-07-2009, 06:22 PM	#307
DavidC View Profile DavidC DavidC Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,917) Photos (95) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity DavidC Trade: Remodeler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: NNY Posts: 1,917	Re: No Service Magic JM, your coming in late on this one and don't have a clue about what or why my stance is. I'll save you having to read all 16 pages of this exercise in futility. First I was a client of SM, a staunch defender of theirs on their own now defunct forum. I was with them for several years and felt I got enough profitable work to pay for the crap. I was also a client of a couple of their competitors and fully admit that SM had the best results of all that I had tried. I waded through piles of crap leads to sell a few good jobs until the quality of the leads went seriously downhill. To me, when any lead service claims that they sell qualified leads I expect to purchase contact info for someone genuinely interested in purchasing services from somebody. It is fully understood that there is no guarantee of me getting the job, that my job is to sell my company and should be fully expected that the prospect is really interested. Their info is sold (as in a product) to 3 contractors who compete for the work. Not a bad plan. When this contact won't answer the phone, return voice messages or email, can't come to the door, explicitly tells me that they never intended to remodel, hangs up on me after delivering multiple expletives, I kinda get the idea that this lead was not qualified. I was promised a qualified lead and want a refund. On the other side, when the lead company tells the consumer they will be contacted by 3 contractors and then they get inundated with a barrage of calls over the next week or two it is plain to see that the lead company is milking that udder until it bleeds with little concern for the contractor or consumer. Secondly, purchasing leads is not marketing. Again, we are purchasing an opportunity to sell to a pre-qualified HO. When I market my business I am putting my name out there in the best places I can think off to entice the consumer to think of us when they wish to remodel. The lead companies are doing the marketing here to entice the consumer to call them so in turn they can sell you their product. In the process of doing THEIR marketing SM will use your comapny name to drive consumers to their website (read that away from yours so they can charge you). When I discovered this it was really the straw that broke the camels back. Every client of theirs that purchase exact match leads and has any form of their own internet marketing is unwittingly chasing potential clients away from their own phone line and into the arms of SM who will then gladly sell you and your competition the contact info. Every call or email that I every made to SM looking for refunds or improvements in what I consider poor customer service resulted in the same company line. Turn it around and make it the contractors fault. Chances are he needs to bone up on sales technique or get to the client faster. They will never say, sorry our bad, then honestly try to rectify. After nearly 30 years in this business I am well aware that I am capable of being in error. Also well aware that it is not likely I am always in error. So if it works for you, great. If you don't mind being in bed with those types of pratices, what can I or anyone say. On my end, I and everyone involved in my business, take the service of our customers seriously and provide the best we can. I expect the same from the vendors that serve us. Good luck Dave __________________ www.CookContractingLLC.com

08-07-2009, 06:52 PM	#308
Bidity View Profile Bidity Registered User Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (8) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Registered User Trade: Services for Service Businesses Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 8	Re: No Service Magic Dave, Haven't caught up yet, but I wanted to let you know that was one of the most honest and straightforward posts I've seen on the topic this far. Your points, 1) The leads are not really 'qualified' (This is interesting, but understandable. It's impossible for SM to qualify leads when their entire marketing strategy is focused on hoarding clicks from search engines) 2) The leads are re-sold, and have no specific connection with SM, and are therefore just receiving random calls 3) Manipulating previous 'exact match' customers with their own SEO and shifting that business to other customers are exactly on point. I'll be happy to respond to how these are absolutely unchangeable from SM's perspective, but furthermore, I'm interested in hearing Shawn's response to #3. This seems a bit traitorous to previous clients.

08-09-2009, 05:51 PM	#310
mousie177 View Profile mousie177 Registered User Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Registered User Trade: remodel Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3	Re: No Service Magic I may not completely understand the strategy... I just know we paid $40000 for our remodels and the Ross family paid 60,000 plus now are working on an addition for their new baby on the way... so it was more than just 40000 from us they lost... they lost all the word of mouth we have from our community... we live in a well sought after neighborhood but due to economy everyone is revamping what they already have. Its just sad to see that you can put certain prices on things with out really knowing what it can lead too... I can see how easy it is to submit a request through SM but there are still people looking to complete the work... its just that i thought and maybe I am wrong but SM is a source of advertising... not jobs... I took from them that it was to help gain exposure to possible clients that you may have not received through your own efforts or word of mouth? I could be wrong...

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08-09-2009, 06:48 PM	#311
THEHANDYMAN View Profile THEHANDYMAN The Handyman Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (146) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity The Handyman Trade: HANDYMAN/Floor covering Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Thornton Colorado Posts: 146	Re: No Service Magic MOUSIE177 Not to worry I don't understand some of what I hear. SM has worked great for me and like you pointed out many times a small job has lead to a larger project that I wouldn't have heard about in any other way. Vary seldom that I won't return a call or follow up on a lead, unless is absolutely some thing I don't feel qualified for or don't have time for.

08-09-2009, 06:57 PM	#312
DMDesigns View Profile DMDesigns Design it, and Build it. Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (81) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Design it, and Build it. Trade: Drafting and Design Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: California Posts: 81	Re: No Service Magic I understand the need, and it does seem like SM is trying to fill it, but it just falls short everytime, as it does not think like it should. It should be free, information is free, everytime you try to regulate it and control it, you loose. Now a Website, displaying your info is a great reason to PAY for something, but getting leads, I mean come on, I can get much better results just talking to my neighbor or people I meet at Home Desperate. I say keep it free - and build your money through ads like Google. Cause as we all know, Google Business Listings will last a whole heck of a lot longer then SM. Dave __________________ David Michael - David Michael Designs www.davidmichaeldesigns.com Free Online Training Videos: www.ChiefTutor.com

08-23-2009, 12:30 PM	#317
DFW Solution View Profile DFW Solution Registered User Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Registered User Trade: Remodeling Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3	Re: No Service Magic Service Magic is a rip off. Have you ever googled the phone number that service magic gives you? They whore out your company name all over the internet to get them customers that don't even match your business. (they even have us under paving and gravel) Even when you try to take over the listing they still keep their website as the contact. Any lawyers out there? Can we start a class action against them to make them stop!? I agree with everyone that said we are competing against ourselves when we pay them for leads. JC

08-29-2009, 10:23 PM	#319
Publisher1 View Profile Publisher1 Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (283) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Construction News Service Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, Ontario Posts: 283	Re: No Service Magic I received two strange spam emails today that directed me . . . to servicemagic ... from a new domain with anonymous characteristics. Checking into the issue of "servicemagic spam" it seems other bloggers have noticed that consumers' names have been resold for spam. Not the best way to build an online reputation, in my opinion.

08-29-2009, 10:32 PM	#320
J F View Profile J F You did what?? Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,598) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity You did what?? Trade: Carpenter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North of Atlanta Posts: 6,598	Re: No Service Magic Yes, Service Magic (or ServiceTragic, as they're more commonly known as) suck/s...

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