Mike Finley

Let me ask this : If we all know that traditional yellow pages suck ass for lead quality with two exceptions 1) being if you like price shoppers, 2) If you are in a service business.

Then what is the great excitement to be had if the trend is the price shoppers are moving from traditional yellow pages to on line yellows pages!!!????!! Yippeeeeeee!!!!

Who cares about statistics showing 90% of the price shoppers are jumping off a cliff if the only customers you care about are the other 10%?

The only thing the INTERNET is beneficial to for contractors is a customer finding you off of your own company website and contacting your from there, OR finding you off of accredited trade groups that consumers flock to in order to find qualified contractors (Those are customers concerned with quality, reputation and all of the other important factors that good contractors excels at providing their customers)

Doesn't everybody see the difference? Haven't you tracked your leads and analyzed them in regard to lead source, sell through ratios and profitability? Customers looking at your company in comparison to others are looking at you for the right reasons. Customers being thrown to any random tom dick or harry contractor off a lead service could careless about any of your qualities other than price.

Customers coming off lead services, online yellow pages, craigslist and the rest all suck.
It's an argument of suck, just sucking more or less.

Please prove me wrong.

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Control your own destiny or someone else will!

dougchips

Please clarify something, if a customer visits your website and fills out a request estimate form do they suck? OR do they just suck if they find your link on cracklist, a contractor directory (like contract spot), or any other on-line source where several contractors have ads or free listings? Do they suck if they search on google? Searching on Google/Yahoo/MSN must suck because everyone knows that you will get millions of results. Not giving you a hard time, just looking for an easier way to prejudge the whole world

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To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

CalFinder

Thats a really good point Mike. Your own website, certification programs and trade organizations are a contractors best friend on the internet. Your own website can have a gallery of your work and testimonials. Make sure your website is search engine friendly, so it can be found, and display your certifications on your website.

Mike Finley

Doug the simple answer to your question was in Cal's reply:

A leads quality should be judged by how close they come to your ideal customer.

Side Question for you: Do you have a profile for your ideal customer?

Now if you want specific answers to any of the questions you asked about specific sources of leads all you have to do is answer the question in regard to how close those leads come to your ideal customer.

If you don't know what your ideal customer's traits are then you need to stop everything you are doing and figure that out. There is nothing that will increase the effectiveness of your advertising then knowing this. After you know this you then move on to the next step and pursue advertising that has the greatest potential to get you in front of the greatest percentage of the type of customers that fit your ideal profile.

The answer to that question depends where they came from. If it was a 13 year old sitting in the school library who found you and is having fun filling out your request form with funny names is that lead the same quality as one that came from an adult that found your website from a national window manufacturer?

That's a for certain.

That would fall much closer to a consumer who is comparing you with your peers which almost always is going to be a higher quality lead.

It will depends on how they found you. Did they search and find you under "CHEAP WINDOWS INSTALLED" or "BEST WINDOW INSTALLERS FOR PELLA WINDOWS"

You can call it prejudging, I call it my process give me leads that are strong. You'll never hear me have to say... "Well Service Magic sucks but you can find some decent jobs in there. Usually you have to toss out 9 out of 10, but you do find a good one now and then"

Personally I don't have the time to wade through 9 leads to get to 1 that is even a potential sale. Who has that time? Do you?

The bottom line Doug is one of two things: Either you agree that where a lead is generated is directly related to the quality of the lead, or you think all customers of all caliber all find you the same way.

Is the lead that comes to you by two members of a country club exchagning your card of the same quality as the person who picked your ad out of craigslist and sends you an offer such as "I saw your ad on craigslist I have 20 windows to install and want to pay $300 to the first person who answers my ad - you supply the caulk."

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Control your own destiny or someone else will!

ocgearhead

Calfinder is great on the phone but once you give them money good luck getting anything back. Very poor service. We do plumbing and other services and got ripped off! Leads were no good Calfinder sells the same lead to 5 contractors so everytime you call a lead the consumer is so tired of phone calls they don't want your service and it's impossible to return the leads. Would not use again. On top of the leads they charge you monthly fees and sign up fees good luck.

Uzi Zaray

I tried them out and was very disappointed.
They present themselves as a very serious company which actually calls to confirm with the customers before sending the leads. From that they went right to the "Sale" saying that there is only one spot left for a contractor in my field of work. Funny to learn they said the same thing to two friends of mine in the same field with in a month period. And it's amazing that the one position was available a month later.

Now for the leads..... They charge $80 per what they call "Lead".
Within 30 minutes I got 3 ($240). every time I got one I dropped anything I was doing and went right to the phone and this is what I got:

1. Got the customer over the phone, she was somewhat upset because as she said, she specificly does not take any estimates and will not tak any for minimum 2 months?! She was just doing some online researching and got to Calfinder (great confirmation).

2. Got the customer over the phone, I hear hammering in the back, the guy tells me he has Home Depot day workers working there and almost finished with the work. He actually asked for over the phone advise for some finishes but never had any intention to get an estimate.

3. Called, got those pre-recorded voice mails. Left a messege, called again twice a day for a week - no response.
Tried emailing, again nothing. I still don't know if the guy is real.

Also don't forget they charge $450!!!! for the "Set up" and $150 monthly "maintenance" (no idea what that means)..... Basically I'm about $1,000 under and for now I froze the account. I have a few friends who considered Calfinder and I drew the short straw so it was up to me to check them out. Could have been worst (if all of us would try it).

silvertree

Here Uzi

http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers...3104887213_3_1

This is where Gabe the cofounder of Calfinder is taking questions from happy and unhappy Calfinder customers.
Hope the link works
Its Linkedin, groups and the NARI group is the one you want.

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Vote for Pedro
Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
203K Loan Remodeler Minnesota

kevins9999

I tried Calfinder for a month. Here are my honest results:

Received 26 leads. 13 (50%) were returned for one of the following reasons:
1.) Not near our service area (they admit they don't have a good system for figuring geography before sending out a lead)
2.) Customer didn't own the home. Many were speculating on foreclosures and wanted estimates should they decide to purchase. Their screening is supposed to weed this out, however I suppose it is possible to lie to the screener when they call.
3.) I was the 6th+ contractor to call. This was strange, since Calfinder promised "an average of 3" contractors will be sent the lead. They later explained that some leads will be sent to more than 3 contractors. I was never very clear on this issue.

Of the 13 leads we accepted (they were relatively good about returning the leads, however they only return leads on Thursdays) These are the results:

(5) No contacts. Many phone calls, emails, etc. Typical with online leads.

(5) Lost to the lowest bidder:

We do a little "survey" with the leads and found out that they all went straight to the lowest bidder. Of the prices we were told, most were way under industry average. Three examples: a complete kitchen remodel with new floors, our bid was $17k - they went with the $10k bid; and a mid-sized bathroom remodel, our bid was $14k, they went with the $8k bid; and my personal favorite: a guy who wants to rebuild his entire roof, add insulation and add drywall ceilings @ the exposed rafters below. Our bid: $39k - he went with the bid for $20k AND told me he was expecting lower prices "because of the economy."

(2) Waiting to hear. One we were already told there were lower bids. The other one isn't really sure he wants to do the work.

So far, 0/13 (we didn't pay for the other 13). Now, before you assume our prices are too high -we close approximately 75% of the leads who come in through other sources. Those leads are of MUCH higher quality. It appears that the 13 leads we received were solely price-shoppers (if they were interested in doing work at all.)

The people who work at CalFinder (for the most part) are very nice. Collin, the former customer service representative always returned phone calls in a timely manner and was very receptive to our issues.

We've had similar results with ServiceMagic (although overall the lead quality at ServiceMagic was slightly higher) and reliableremodeler (the worst lead quality ever.)

If you are in a service-based business AND operate on a competitive-price business model then probably will do very well with this type of service.

If you operate, as we do, with a "value added" model - meaning that we add the value of exceptional service for the price we charge - chances are you won't get very far with Calfinder.

ottagosoon

The only reason these lead companies are getting most of the leads is because they buy up all of the adwords at a high price.
Do a google search and you will see the same lead companies under different ads pop up again and again on the same search. page after page.
We all don't have enough money to come up 5 times under one search in 6 pages. we are lucky to come up once in 25 pages. Some would think I got a better chance of hitting the Mega Millions lotto then showing my ad on a google search twice in 25 pages.

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A One MAN Show

silvertree

This will change somewhat in the future, with Google ruling the search engine service the big LGS can buy adwords for that engine. As things change, such as with Bing and Yahoo getting more searches they will be forced to buy more, that means selling more and they are at the tip of the iceberg right now for getting many more clients, unless you count selling their services in other countries.

Also you can rank very well organically and contractors are finally understanding how to do this.
So, you can still do well

__________________
Vote for Pedro
Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
203K Loan Remodeler Minnesota

martinkulik

Hi,
I actually had the pleasure to talk to Gabe today personally. I am kind of left with bitter taste. I sign up with calfinder 2 months ago and I was promised many things. I spent about 1500.00 dolars on the service from the date I signed up and was able to receive about 15 leads and have not receive any business from it yet. I have talked to about 4 people on the phone and went to give estimate to 2 people, but I was able to close any sales. Most of the people I was not able to contact either on the phone nor through email. I called and email the customer service and was told that their feedback from customers was that they never heard from a contractor. I met Gabe today when he tried to pitch his business at Solar Booth, but I stand up and told him how I felt about his business. He did not feel very comfortable and did not want to stay much longer after I face him up and shake his hand, he offered he will try to work with me and gave me his business card we will see if he calls . If he is good businessman and good human being than he will try to call and should apologize and offer some help, but if not the he is a scam artist like the others try to take advantage of this economy and advantage of people trying to make a decent living,
Sincerely,
Martin Kulik

ESIConstruction

i signed up with calfinder and was promised a 20 lead trial basis where if i can not get a hold of the customer i am then able to return the lead no questions asked.
2 weeks later and 20 dead leads when i decided to cancelt he service and get my refund i was told the following

I have read the addendum to you contract that Colin has revised for your unique case. I do see that the contract states that Calfinder will issue a return on a lead for not being able to set up an appointment. However, all leads must be contacted to qualify for a return. In your case, you did not contact the leads and as a result we cannot issue you a refund. Moreover, as stated in your contract we issue refunds on a lead as a lead for lead credit.

lol they are very very funny so i went ahead and disputed it and will deal with them the harsh way.

they are money hungry machine and they are useless.

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ESI construction
Los Angeles contractor specializing in water damage, remodel, kitchen & bathroom.
www.esi.us.com

Pool-Builder

Is there a way you can send me more info about your website... perhaps by email?

ESIConstruction

who???

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ESI construction
Los Angeles contractor specializing in water damage, remodel, kitchen & bathroom.
www.esi.us.com

RidgeWalker

I spent 7 dollars for a domain name and 50 dollars for the first years hosting. My site beat service magic every single time when some one searchs for my keywords.

You do not need gobbs of money to beat Service Magic or any other traffic stealer. You just need to out think them.

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Restore My Home Construction
Atlanta Roofing Repair
My SN Profile

silvertree

Its true, because I copied what you did and rank #1 for Minneapolis Kitchen Remodeling

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Vote for Pedro
Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
203K Loan Remodeler Minnesota

RidgeWalker

Thanks for the kudos! I got the coffee too, yum yum! Now go work on your profile and make more content! :P

__________________
Restore My Home Construction
Atlanta Roofing Repair
My SN Profile

josefh123

Please e-mail me more info about your company

ocgearhead

Here if you want to know more about Calfinder read these post

CalFinder

Hi OCGearHead,

Thanks for stopping by this thread. I looked at your profile in which you don't list the company that you represent so I can not investigate your history specifically. Feel free to contact us.

Your most recent postings about CalFinder are in reference to homeowners getting phone calls from 5-6 contractors competing for the same job. We can not guarantee that the homeowner did not send their information to another lead provider. These are internet leads and in some instances homeowners use other services and you should be aware of that. That is the nature of this marketing channel.

I can say that we are a highly-respected company and can attest to the value we provide for both contractors and homeowners alike. We get scores of positive feedback from homeowners experiences each day/week. We also have hundreds of contractors that we have helped grow their businesses. We are not a perfect fit for everyone, but if you have the right set of tools and can assuredly convince a homeowner that your company is the best and come-in with a competitive bid, then you will be successful with CalFinder or any other internet lead service for that matter. Just be persistant and patient if necessary and the marketing will pay off.