Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement

 
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:24 PM   #1
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Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Looking for an application for gluing a 3/4 wood floor down to concrete (basement).
What I'm worried about is moisture wicking into floor. My thought is to
use Reguard, but don't know what type of glue to use.

Thanks in advance
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:36 PM   #2
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


DO NOT USE ANY WATER BASED GLUE! Get some Urea glue/PVAC Good luck

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Old 09-29-2008, 05:21 PM   #3
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


If you don't have a concrete moisture meter-Tape a piece of clear plastic onto the concrete floor (all four side)...leave it for 24 hours, if it shows any sign of moisture you will not be able to use any wood product...you also will need to use engineered wood on the floor and use what the manufacture suggests to glue it down.
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:41 PM   #4
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Do the moisture check and if it is dry apply Bostitch MVP for a moisture barrier and use a urethane glue to install with. The basement must have forced air ventilation to install any wood floor.
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Old 09-29-2008, 10:50 PM   #5
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


It would be a good idea to have a dehumidifier installed to your hvac system assuming your concrete passes its moisture test. A thermohygrometer may not be a bad thing to have around either...
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Old 10-02-2008, 07:54 PM   #6
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


I just Talked with the Ardex Rep yesterday about this same application. They have a waterproof barrier to apply to the concrete and they use the Henry's Waterproof acrylic wood glue. This is a New Product from Henry's and i am very excited to start using it.

In fact our local distributer offered if i buy 4 buckets, try the first one if i do not like it as much as my current wood glue they will buy back all 4 buckets.

sounded like a great deal...
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:06 AM   #7
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Although NOFMA recently came out with approved guidelines for gluing a solid product over concrete, it must be an above grade situation. Lots of more hoops to jump through too.... one of which is the wood has to be NOFMA certified. Like someone has already mentioned, you should be looking for an engineered product.
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Old 10-04-2008, 03:39 PM   #8
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


I agree. Solid wood can expand and contract in any direction it seems fit.
A solid humidity in the area will help keep it in contraol.

good luck-
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:43 PM   #9
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


you shouldnt glue it down at all , in fl we get a lot who try , and try as you might ,it will pop, they have all kinds of sealers , go high end , to keep from cupping , but wasteing time and money , on glue down , i do about 1 per month , re-install because the owner wants it and the installer thinks if he gets the best sealer and glue it will work , it wont , trust me , you will ahve to manny voids , how long are the boards , not that it much matters ,
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:45 PM   #10
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


henery glue by the way sucks , 90% of our work is glue down , in florida , or on sleepers , ardex and hnerys use to have some good stuff , gone down hill good luck , hope i am around to say i told you so
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:19 AM   #11
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


LOL!!! All these suggestions to disaster!


Solid over concrete is a very risky situation. Concrete will always have moisture vapor emissions. There are proven methods to reduce this from getting to the solid wood flooring, what is forgotten, is the ability for concrete and the moisture barriers to be below dew point temperature, and then you have a big liability concern in your wallet.

I walk away from anyone wanting a solid wood floor, installed over concrete. I have seen first hand that even doing it as recommended, ended up as firewood.


Engineered over concrete!!! That is what it was made for from the beginning of engineered production.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:01 AM   #12
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


unless its over jypcrete and there's a garage or basement below. Convince them to use cork board. seal the concrete first.
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Old 10-19-2008, 10:43 PM   #13
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Quote:
Originally Posted by floorit View Post
unless its over jypcrete and there's a garage or basement below. Convince them to use cork board. seal the concrete first.

Seal it with what?? Don't just throw the word sealer out there as there are many concrete sealers, and on every bucket of glue I have seen said concrete must be void of any sealers, paint, dirt, dust, grease, and old adhesive residues.
A moisture blocker is not a sealer, it is an epoxy or urethane coating.
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:22 PM   #14
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Quote:
There are proven methods to reduce this from getting to the solid wood flooring, what is forgotten, is the ability for concrete and the moisture barriers to be below dew point temperature, and then you have a big liability concern in your wallet.
Floordude,
I would like to here more about the dew point problems you mentioned above. I have seen this happen on bare concrete in my house this summer after an A.C. failure. We opened the windows and the warm moist air (98% RH) moving across my still cool slab condensed and soaked the surface of the slab. I have also seen this happen on the surface of wood floors near the beach with the windows open. Before we had dust control we had to turn off the AC to sand and finish so we would not clog the AC coil. The floor would still be cool from the AC and the warm Gulf air blowing in would condense and wet the surface of the floor we were trying to sand.

I am just wondering how this happens to a glue down floor in a controlled environment.

We are still installing many solid glue downs and have had no problems. I agree engineered is designed for gluing direct to a slab and is the safest and most sensible way to install on concrete but we have had many years of happy customers and no problems because of this system. We do not promote this method but when a past customer calls and says they have 3,000 s.f. of Carlisle Wide Plank Flooring for us to install, sand and finish (and Carlisle recommends this method) we do it if the job site conditions are suitable for a direct glue down. Unfortunately more and more manufacturers,NOFMA, and the NWFA are now approving solid direct glue downs (under certan conditions) so we are being asked to do this more than ever.

I have also seen many failures from this method but the installers causing these failures had no idea what they were doing.
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:44 AM   #15
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyJ View Post
Floordude,


I am just wondering how this happens to a glue down floor in a controlled environment.


That's just it, most homes are not controlled all the time. Especially with energy cost rising at an alarming rate. A cool but humid time of the year, and the windows fly open and the problems arise. My father is 78 years old, and he cannot afford to run the AC all spring summer and fall. His windows are open all the time. He doesn't have wood flooring, but if he did, there would be a dew point concern at times, as the carport and the tiles in his kitchen is soaking wet in the mornings. Dew point and the condensation, will blow a solid wood floor.
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:55 PM   #16
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


I was doing some work for a lady that was having a lot of problems with her solid wood floor. She lives on the 14th floor with concrete floors. The contractor glued down solid flooring and she was complaining about a squishing () sound sometimes and also very bad gaps.

Floordude, does what you're saying apply to all concrete or just basement slabs?
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:00 AM   #17
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Hardwood should never be installed below grade. Anytime you install a moisture sensitive product (solid wood) in an area that has a high moisture content (basements) you are setting yourself up for failure. There are many more options that are easier and not as sensitive to moisture as hardwood.
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:24 PM   #18
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Quote:
Originally Posted by fungku View Post
I was doing some work for a lady that was having a lot of problems with her solid wood floor. She lives on the 14th floor with concrete floors. The contractor glued down solid flooring and she was complaining about a squishing () sound sometimes and also very bad gaps.

Floordude, does what you're saying apply to all concrete or just basement slabs?


All concrete will have moisture vapor emissions, even if it is on the 100th floor. Yes concrete is basically a man made rock. That rock has the ability to be colder then the ambient air above.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #19
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM View Post
If you don't have a concrete moisture meter-Tape a piece of clear plastic onto the concrete floor (all four side)...leave it for 24 hours, if it shows any sign of moisture you will not be able to use any wood product...you also will need to use engineered wood on the floor and use what the manufacture suggests to glue it down.

I came across this webinar with Howard Kanare on the Wagner Rapid RH site, found it very helpful in regards to moisture testing
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #20
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Re: Wood Floor Glue Down Over Cement


I glue hardwood to CONCRETE all the time. You just cannot glue any ole solid to concrete. It has to or should be properly kiln dried, older growth wood, perfectly milled and acclimated as well. Know your zones high and low EMC.

Carlisle and W-D Flooring, TEKA and Oregon Lumber make some pretty awesome wood floors. Probably want to shy away from LL.

The home shall have an hvac system in use before and after installation. That means no manufacturered homes or show birds who shut down the hvac when they go off to the other house back east or what have you.

Moisture testing, ASTM F-2170-11 is the new standard, study it and use it. I also use ASTM F-1869 if I have any questions for double saftey.

If height is not an issue go with a floating ply subfloor over MVP4, six mil plastic. And some go a step further and use 15 lb felt on top of the six mil to protect it. I just go 15lb felt on top of the ply and nail'er down.

Sika makes a great All In One adhesive, T-21 which the better manufacturers recommend.

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Last edited by ernesto; 09-06-2012 at 04:29 PM. Reason: spellink
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