What customers DON'T see!! Warning post contains pricing info! - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

wizendwizard · 09-21-2008, 06:40 PM

I received a call this morning from a lady wanting carpet install. She tells me that she already has the carpet but no padding or tack strip, want's to know what I charge for install!

I replied " $520.00 for up to 3 rooms install only. Padding and Tack strip will be extra." This breaks down to $173.33 per standard room.

She say's "OMG!! Lowes only charges $199 for an entire house!"

Needless to say she hung up. No sale!

I have been bothered by this all day, so I ran it through my estimation program. Sure enough 120 sq yds install only $536.80.

Anyway I went to Blowes.com and read up on their carpet install and here's what I found:

*Disclaimer: +$249 whole-house basic carpet installation is for two or more rooms and includes installation of pad. Price for basic installation of carpet and pad in one room (up to 30sq/yds) is $199. Prices stated for basic installation require purchase of both Special Order carpet and pad from Lowe's for installation in single family residential homes. Basic installation includes removal and haul away of old carpet and pad, installation on existing tack strip, and moving of normal household furniture. Additional charges will apply for glue down carpet, installing on steps, moving outsized, dump fees or excessive household furniture, and other additional services not included in basic installation. Prices do not include cost of materials to be installed. No offset or deduction for any included services which are not used. Prices are not valid for multi-family and/or commercial properties, which projects will be priced by quote only. Not valid on prior purchases. May not be available in all areas. See store for details and listing of all available special order carpet.

Where Oh Where, am I going wrong in customer education?

BKFranks · 09-21-2008, 06:45 PM

Maybe you should ask for their name and number first. Then give them the quote. Actually before you give them the quote tell them that home cheapo or blowes is going to tack on everything on top of the $249 so it's actually more than the price you are going to quote them.

Maybe you should break down your prices just like they do. Tell them you only charge $5 for the whole house, but you charge for every part just like they do.

**genecarp** · 09-21-2008, 06:52 PM

homeowners often learn the hardway, that in addition to the bigbox pricing being misleading, they also run a BIG risk of having someone show up at ther house that i would not let carpet my woodshed!!!!!

Mike Finley · 09-21-2008, 06:55 PM

Just tell them the truth - you act like Lowes and Home Depot are quality installation companies! How does the worst quality company set the pricing standards for everyone else???? Why in the world are you not setting leads straight about the truth????

Step 1

Ask the customer if they have ever done an internet search along the lines of "customer complaints home depot" or "customer complaints lowes"

Step 2

Ask the customer if they know who home depot and lowes hires to do this work? Obviously we all know who they hire - the people we would never hire to work for us. When they pay as low as they do who do you think is working for them? People who can't get legitimate work because they suck, their alchoholics, drunks, don't show up, lie cheat steal, do poor quality work...

Set em straight man. There is no reason to pretend they are on par with you.

neolitic · 09-21-2008, 07:03 PM

Might have had something for her
if you had remembered this
http://www.contractortalk.com/showth...t=lowes+%24199

Floordude · 09-21-2008, 07:10 PM

Did you explain she has to buy the over priced carpet from them, to get that $199 special. And the real cost of the installation, is rolled into the carpet marked up price. They will find out soon enough, no one is going to touch it for $200.

wizendwizard · 09-21-2008, 07:16 PM

It's just so frustrating to have this thrown at me EVERY time!

3 times in the past month I have gone through this. Customers don't want to give names and addresses, always women, and ALWAYS balk that Blowes is cheaper.

I even had one that recently told me they couldn't find anyone to install their already purchased carpet and padding since it wasn't supplied by the installers they had called!

If you can't find someone to install carpet you have already purchased except me, why would you Balk at my install price!

I think I'm just going to give up on carpet installing.

RCPainting · 09-21-2008, 07:41 PM

Maybe you could come to Utah!
Went back to do final touchup on a new home. HOs put used, stinking carpet in some rooms, and plywood on some and used varathane, screws sticking out everywhere!!
This is what happens when you go cheap!

Bellsfloors · 09-21-2008, 08:51 PM

Floordude is on the right track. That is exactly how they charge the customer. Try buying the carpet somewhere else and hiring their carpet layers for that price. It won't happen!! Many retailers are competing with each other and they are always trying to find a gimmick to convince the customer that they are the lowest price around since most of them all carry the same product lines. Either lowball installation pricing, free pad or other quirk they can think of to make the customer believe they are getting a bargain.

Installers have to sell their talents and skills. If the customer wants price they can go to the big box stores. If they want quality then they have to pay the price.

dokuhaku · 09-22-2008, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellsfloors

...Installers have to sell their talents and skills. If the customer wants price they can go to the big box stores. If they want quality then they have to pay the price....

It took me many years to understand this. I have done almost all of my time in the trade working for subs of Home Depot and Lowes. For too long I wondered why I never got recognized as a quality installer while the crews who openly boasted of their 'fast 'n nasty' style were held up as top dawgs in the shop. Rest assured, I do not wonder anymore.
I still do work for a subcontractor of Lowes, but those days are numbered. Since obtaining my license, I have had a slow start. Recently, however, the referrals have started to trickle in. The quality I have worked hard to perfect is finally being recognized and, lo and behold, the customers are willing to pay for it!
Two weeks ago, when we were nearly finished with a 900 s.f. glue down job, my customer dropped a large glass shelf onto his brand new floor. The sturdy glass survived, but it did a number on 3 boards. If he had contracted the work through Lowes, he would have been quite the glum chum. Thankfully, for his sake, the contract had been with me, a contractor of some integrity and character. I set up the board replacements, gratis, for the following week. He witnessed firsthand the idea 'you get what you pay for' and then some!

**AtlanticWBConst** · 09-22-2008, 05:16 AM

Simply put: You cannot compete with Low ballers.

And that's what Blow's and HD are doing. We offer to install carpet (I have 2 workers with carpet install experience), when the HO mentions the whole house deal-thing, forget it. We can't compete with that.

If someone is shopping around with one of those whole house prices, I don't think you'll want to work for a cheapo like that anyways. You can attempt to educate them, but often, it's just a waste of time.

Cdat · 09-22-2008, 10:55 AM

Just start laughing when they mention Blowes. Then, they'll ask you why you're laughing. Take it from there.

Bud Cline · 09-22-2008, 08:00 PM

If the big boxes had it their way they would drive all the knowledgeable installers out of the business then they could rape the nation with their substandard products and minimum wage installations "teams".

Since when is the pricing of any discount store a benchmark for anything?

silvertree · 09-22-2008, 08:13 PM

Just for the sake of a laugh, I saw one of HD's storm door installs. You could put your finger in between the door and the jamb and their were screw holes all over the bottom panel with caulk shot into the screw holes. It was a store special, $45 storm door install. Homeowner seemed OK with it.

Houston's · 09-22-2008, 08:13 PM

lowes was going to charge $800 to do one room here in baton rouge. and it was a small room...

wireless · 09-22-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlanticWBConst

If someone is shopping around with one of those whole house prices, I don't think you'll want to work for a cheapo like that anyways. You can attempt to educate them, but often, it's just a waste of time.

The problem is not that their cheap it is uneducated, they don't no the difference of what your selling and what HD or Lowe's is. It would not be very smart of anyone not to find out what they are offering for cheaper then anyone else, even with their catch it can still be worth it. A responsible consumer should look for the lower price, they have to be educated on why the items they are comparing are not comparable and therefore not really cheaper.

MattCoops · 09-22-2008, 09:07 PM

Well, BKFranks hit on one of the most important first steps: The first thing you should do with ANY sales call is get the customer's name and number.

Now if you had that information you would have been able to follow up and make a sale after informing the customer of their buying decision.

One of my company rules is that I am NOT a salesman. My number one job is to be a contractor. In essence, I have a 3 tier goal system:

1. Obtain a lead and qualify the prospect
2. Inform the cusomer on their project
3. Draft a contract that outlines how we [as the contractor] will meet their needs to the utmost attention to detail

Just by a person calling for a price over the phone, I'm not really putting any weight on that person being my target audience. I just look at him/her as a "window shopper". Not that I don't deem these as quality leads. I've gotten some of the best customers who started out exactly on this path.
See, these people are mis-informed. They already have the wrong mindset that their project is to be completed based on a price.

Now, here's where you can go from here:

caller: "I have x amount of sq ft of flooring I would like covered. How much is it going to cost?"

you: "Ok sir/ma'am, thanks for calling [insert your company name]. My name is ______. What is your name please?"

you: "Ok [their name]. Can I get your phone number just in case you get connected from my direct line?"
and then continue,
"Where do you plan on installing this in your home?" (you can ask them which room or rooms, even get the square footage if you want, and any other specs you deem necessary)
* Now here's the catch to this question. Ask a very few, precise questions (I like to keep it to simply "What room is it in your house?" and then get on to this question: "Where are you located / What is your address?"

Now here is where you draw a line.
If they can't give you a name, an address and a phone number, is this a person you would like to work with?

This is my simple qualifying process.

Now. If I've got their name, phone, and address I can begin to setup an estimate.
Heck, all I really need to do is schedule a date and time. But sometimes it's just not that easy.

you: "So [their name], what do you plan on doing to this particular room?"

caller: "I want this, I want that. yadda yadda"

* Keep in mind you can now find out what kind of prospect you have by using a very important tool: listening to exactly what they are saying without thinking what you are going to say next or interrupting. You will find out exactly what the customer wants, they may even hint you to what you will need to give them to sell them on this project. You may even find out their demenear and get an idea on how to approach them with your presentation.
And even more importantly, you may find out that this is not the type of project you want to do, and you may keep yourself from wasting time and money.

you: "Ok, great. Sounds like a project we'd be interested in helping you with."
and get right into questions that will help you in determining what samples, pamplets, brochures, catalogs, and whatever other selling tools you will need to bring with you to your estimate.
* Remember, our goal here is to get to an estimate. Not make a sale.

sometime during this questioning process you might run into this:

you: "Ok, so you want this on your floors. Do you have any particular colors in mind? style? size? etc." It's ok to get a little in-depth here.

at some point of this part of the call they may throw this at you:

caller: "Well, I've already bought (or) got an idea of what I want. I just want to know how much it will cost."

you: "Ok that's great. Now, will you be able to have a sample of that product when I come by to help you get an estimate for your project?"

if customer says "yes" they have sample or can get sample, go right into: "Our nearest appointment is this day at this time. Does that fit into your schedule?" And get to an agreed upon appointment day/time

if customer stops you dead in your tracks with the dreaded "well, I really just want to find out how much it will cost" answer with something like this:

you: "I understand [their name]. And I'd like to help you by visiting with you and seeing exactly what will be needed for your particular job. This way we can decide in detail how we can complete your job the right way. After all [their name], that's is what you want right? Getting your project done right and on time?"

you: "Good." and then go back to: "The nearest day and time I can meet with you is on ___________. Does that work for you?"

who's gonna say no to that. end with a question that will have to be answered with a yes. none of this has to be verbatum. but you catch the drift, come up with some compelling reason that you absolutely NEED to Visit and See them. GET YOUR ESTIMATE!

**Double-A** · 09-22-2008, 09:28 PM

Um, did anyone actually read the quote he posted?

Lowes does it for 249, not including a damned thing except for the situation they expect to find, existing tack, its not to heavy, they don't break a nail or scuff their nail polish...

The 199 she said she could have it done was for one room up to 30 sq/yds... Not the entire house.

And those prices were on special order carpet using padding supplied by lowes and the padding is extra.

Sooo, I'd say, you're missing the boat in educating your customer when they call and think they are getting one thing, and it turns out they are not getting anything of the sort.

wizendwizard · 09-22-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-A

Um, did anyone actually read the quote he posted?

Lowes does it for 249, not including a damned thing except for the situation they expect to find, existing tack, its not to heavy, they don't break a nail or scuff their nail polish...

The 199 she said she could have it done was for one room up to 30 sq/yds... Not the entire house.

And those prices were on special order carpet using padding supplied by lowes and the padding is extra.

Sooo, I'd say, you're missing the boat in educating your customer when they call and think they are getting one thing, and it turns out they are not getting anything of the sort.

We are getting closer o the point, but we still aren't there!

There is NO educating a customer if they are refusing to:
Give name, phone number and address.
Listen beyond the initial price quote.
Understand this is getting to be industry standard in my area.

Flooring contractors simply will not install carpet that has been purchased elsewhere. I offer this service simply because no one else will.

I will be the first to admit, As a local contractor, I can't compete with GCO, Lowes, HD, The Flooring Center, or any of the national suppliers when it comes to carpet purchasing of installation services. I do however offer the services they don't.

At least I am the only bath and kitchen remodeler in a 50 mile radius!!!
I'll stick with that and let the crazy big box installers lose money on carpet!

Boman-RS.net · 09-23-2008, 02:49 PM

I have not had much experience with the business portion of the remodeling gig. However, after reading the previous posts, everyone is bashing "Blowes" etc. stores about their pricing. You talk about their up charge on the carpet/ flooring etc. to make up for their installation charges. But if you were going to install flooring are you providing the material??? If not of course the customer will go with the lower install prices when they are already buying their material from that supplier.

Stop me if I'm wrong. How do you suggest the consumer get the material and then hire a third party installer?