Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement

 
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Old 03-20-2008, 08:39 AM   #1
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Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


I'm bidding on a wood floor replacement job in kitchen where the dishwasher leaked and the water flowed between the original vinyl floor and the overlayed 2 1/4" strip oak. Surface boards are easily cupped up to 5-6 feet away, which is nearly 20% - 25% of the entire floor. I'm going to pull a piece and try to match it up at my supplier, but have a few Q's:

when replacing water damaged portions of the floor, have you had good success w/ matching the damaged portion of flooring or did the entire floor need replacing.

any tips on sealing the floor under the dishwasher to ensure this doesn't happen again? I may sound crazy, but drilling a hole in the subfloor would allow any water to pour into the basement (ceiling tiles) and be noticed before the cupped floor.

original installation was an afterthought and island was not removed-do you guys offer to pull up island, lay floor and reinstall as a line item option or put it back together as was with the 1/4 round?
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Old 03-20-2008, 09:55 AM   #2
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


It is going to depend if it is prefinished flooring or site finished.
Water will seek the lowest point. What are you going to do to make a funnel.

I wouldn't mess with the island, and do it how ever it was originally done.

One thing I know, your in way over your head, dealing with wood flooring and a water leak. What's you plan of action, once the old flooring is torn out?? I certainly hope you have a wood moisture meter and know what your looking at when you use it. If not, your going to be fixing it again and again.

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Old 03-20-2008, 03:18 PM   #3
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


you don't have any basis for telling someone they are or are not in over their head when you don't have enough information to make that determination.

a couple of elementary things: the leaky dishwasher was turned off over 3 weeks ago and I can have access to the home while the HO's are away on vacation-six days with 3-4 of those with a fan airing off the stripped area. Sorry for not mentioning the floor-looks like a Bruce microbevel prefinished.

can you elaborate on why you wouldn't offer the services to install the flooring under the island?

making a 'funnel' isn't too difficult as it involves flat stock w/ a handbrake and silicone the corners. Your response leads me to believe you've never contemplated anything like this...on second thought maybe I shouldn't jump to conclusions.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:50 PM   #4
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


A reasonable conclusion was made by Floordude.

He may or may not be wrong, but his conclusion was reasonable based on info provided.

You asked about matching floor and if it was possible. This would lead me to believe you have not done this type of work much, otherwise you would know the answer to your question.

It stands to reason, if you have never replaced part of a floor, you have not replaced parts of many water damaged floors.

I would assume that Floordude was warning you about this job because he has experienced a wet floor that he has tried to replace part of.

I do not do floors, but I do wood, and do insurance restoration. If a floor was saturated with water, it will not necessarily show it a day or month later. Floordude is simply warning you that when a board warps 6 months or a year from now the problem will be due to the dish washer. If the homeowner signed a release from the insurance company, who do you think they are going to call to fix this problem for free?

After all you were the one who told the insurance company and the homeowner all that needed to be repaired/replaced was the 25% near the dishwasher.

I do not think FloorDude was questioning your ability, but rather gave a hint that you may want to try to convince the homeowner and/or insurance adjuster that the whole floor needs to be redone.


Now as for your potential solution to the problem. In order for the water to funnel, it will have to at least partially saturate the floor. If the floor has been saturated, I would want it replaced.

If this is a job where insurance is not involved, make sure you put in your contract that you do not guarantee any part of the floor new or old from warping, because I say there is a 90% chance it will, even if there was minimal water saturation.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:56 PM   #5
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


if you dont do the whole floor no gaurantee on match, no way
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:56 PM   #6
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


[quote=72chevy4x4;404124]you don't have any basis for telling someone they are or are not in over their head when you don't have enough information to make that determination.

AMEN.
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:49 PM   #7
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


sorry for being grumpy, my team is out of the tournament.

you are correct, I've not replaced water damaged flooring in a situation such as this but had already advised the HO that in my opinion the entire floor should be replaced while investigating the option of replacing the damaged portion.

The dishwasher was leaking during use, therefore the amount of water would be much less as compared to the broken supply line scenario.

Would anyone mind telling me the procedure for airing the floor in preparation of installation? The installation instructions for Burlington hardwood states moisture must be les than 12% in the subfloor. Is there an alternative to felt in a water damaged situation which may provide a better barrier?
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:09 PM   #8
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


this is pretty much straight forward, after ripping out the damaged floor, if several weeks pass the sub will dry out. provided of coarse the water leak has stopped and enough air is circulating over the damaged area, if sub is not sound replace, if its ok, dont. felt paper is fine, use 30lb if your worried.if its a prefinished floor you have a better shot at matching, just explain that (lots) can be different, and light, air, and traffic alter a floor.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:23 PM   #9
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4 View Post
sorry for being grumpy, my team is out of the tournament.

you are correct, I've not replaced water damaged flooring in a situation such as this but had already advised the HO that in my opinion the entire floor should be replaced while investigating the option of replacing the damaged portion.

The dishwasher was leaking during use, therefore the amount of water would be much less as compared to the broken supply line scenario.

Would anyone mind telling me the procedure for airing the floor in preparation of installation? The installation instructions for Burlington hardwood states moisture must be les than 12% in the subfloor. Is there an alternative to felt in a water damaged situation which may provide a better barrier?
Yep. Aquabar.

That being said....If the moisture content is not up (down) to spec that will not matter anyway. If the source of the moisture is repaired and sufficient time and airflow have eliminated the excess then you wouldn't need anything better than 15lb felt.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:17 AM   #10
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


I guess what I was trying to say, but i forgot a lot of smiley faces to show the emotion it was said, is...

This is not guess work. You better know EXACTLY what your doing. You sound just like the DIY questions I field daily.

If you ask me, the floor may not even need to be removed. There are ways to dry out what is there. Once the unbalance of moisture in the boards from top to bottom has come back to equilibrium, the boards will go back to their flat state, unless the edges were compressed for too long, and become compression set. Then all that is needed is a sand and fill, to correct it.


ANGUS... Your just as clueless!!! As proven many times before. Your gift is labor management.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:30 AM   #11
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


those floors rarely, if ever, return to an acceptable state, in my experiance
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:46 AM   #12
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4 View Post
The installation instructions for Burlington hardwood states moisture must be les than 12% in the subfloor.

So how are you interpreting that???

What is your regional average moisture content??

What if it is 6% and you install 6% wood over 12% subfloor? What do you think is going to happen?

So you get fans and dehumidifiers going. You get it dry(too dry) and you acclimated the new wood in the home near while the drying process is going on, and then immediately install the wood flooring. Your regional MC is 10% and you dried the interior and replacement wood flooring down to 6% and you install it tight, what is going to happen.

Are you going to set you wrist watch on the subfloor and time it for two weeks and say" It's Dry"????


I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I know it will come across as that.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:50 AM   #13
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by genecarp View Post
those floors rarely, if ever, return to an acceptable state, in my experiance
In my experience, once there is equal moisture % from the top of the board to the bottom of the board, the board will return to its flat state, and dimensions it was milled at. The only way to determine that is with a calibrated, pin-type, wood moisture meter.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:37 AM   #14
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


after water interacts with a finished wood floor, it is not only the the cupping, it is also the finish, that is affected, if you are working for a high end client that demands quality, they will see the difference after things have dried out, and will not be happy, what do the rest of you guys think, A FINISHED WOOD FLOOR, EXPOSED TO ENOUGH WATER TO CUP, IN YOUR EXPERIANCE, WILL IT DRY OUT GOOD AS NEW? OR DO YOU REPLACE?
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:25 PM   #15
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


If this is strip flooring, as opposed to 3/4" hardwood, I recommend complete replacement and providing the homeowner your usual warranty. As has been pointed out, too many "ifs" otherwise: matching finish (especially taking wear into account), ensuring only the visibly damaged area has been exposed to water (low spots in subfloor that may have been exposed to standing water), high risk or collateral damage that is not yet noticeable.

If it's real hardwood, replace the damaged area and refinish the entire floor.

Either way, I'd want to pull that vinyl the heck out of there and make sure the subfloor is sound since there's been significant water damage.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:18 PM   #16
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by genecarp View Post
after water interacts with a finished wood floor, it is not only the the cupping, it is also the finish, that is affected, if you are working for a high end client that demands quality, they will see the difference after things have dried out, and will not be happy, what do the rest of you guys think, A FINISHED WOOD FLOOR, EXPOSED TO ENOUGH WATER TO CUP, IN YOUR EXPERIANCE, WILL IT DRY OUT GOOD AS NEW? OR DO YOU REPLACE?
Sure, it is all going to depend how long the moisture was allowed to stay there, if it effects the finish.

I have been involved in a dozen floods since the new year, All were dried out without any thing else needed, they look as good as the day they were installed and finished.

Time & the finish applied are the big factors.

Black water leaks are for sure replaced. But supply line leaks are different. Wood does, what wood does. It shrinks and swells with a loss or gain in moisture content.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:43 PM   #17
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in VaBeach View Post
If this is strip flooring, as opposed to 3/4" hardwood.
????

Strip flooring doesn't mean it's not solid wood.

Strip flooring usually describes 2 1/4" hardwood (some people include the 3 1/4" into this classification as well)

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Old 03-22-2008, 07:11 AM   #18
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by Floordude View Post
I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I know it will come across as that.
I don't think you're coming across as a smartass, but you don't have the heart of a teacher. As far as the DIY comment, I would be a prolific posting DIY'er to rack up over 500 posts without anyone catching on . One more thing, you're throwing out a lot of numbers on the wood MC, I'll bet a dozen donuts that fewer than 1/2 of the other contractors this HO calls would not be taking the readings of the subfloor. It's not a DIY question rather I am trying to glean information to get ahead of the pack.

your posts about floors coming back to a flat state after MC equilibrium is reached is interesting, I wonder if that is something that tends to happen more often in a fully soaked floor versus a floor soaked from the bottom (w/ no pooling). one case gets the entire board wet and the latter wicks from the bottom up. Either way, the floor in question is buckling (in places) nearly 2". When sticking wet lumber (the kind you get from a saw mill), some of it will dry straight because it has pressure to keep straight. Later, if the MC rises and falls, the board can then cup twist and retain that state, which would indicated the latter is the state of equilibrium for that board, not the former. Maybe this applies to strip flooring too.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:55 AM   #19
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


Quote:
Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4 View Post
I don't think you're coming across as a smartass, but you don't have the heart of a teacher. As far as the DIY comment, I would be a prolific posting DIY'er to rack up over 500 posts without anyone catching on


I can teach in person. You cannot hear the emotion in which I type.

I do flooring for a living, a flooring contractor, you don't see me up on a roof getting paid to do shingles. If I did, I would be a DIY'er up on someones roof, with my finger crossed, just like your on someones floor, with your fingers crossed. That is all I'm saying.




Quote:
One more thing, you're throwing out a lot of numbers on the wood MC, I'll bet a dozen donuts that fewer than 1/2 of the other contractors this HO calls would not be taking the readings of the subfloor. It's not a DIY question rather I am trying to glean information to get ahead of the pack.

I bet fewer then 1% of the other contractors would not own a wood moisture meter or know what they were looking at if they had one. If they did, I'd be out of a job. I'm letting you know, from my experience in just what your dealing with. Guessing is not the professional way to do anything. There is wood science behind it all. It is not just a dry it out and slap some more wood down.



Quote:
Either way, the floor in question is buckling (in places) nearly 2".
Surface boards are easily cupped up to 5-6 feet away

You just meantioned cupped appearence. If the floor is actually buckled, then yes by all means remove the wood, as there is a lot of moisture still there, it is too late to save it.



Quote:
When sticking wet lumber (the kind you get from a saw mill), some of it will dry straight because it has pressure to keep straight. Later, if the MC rises and falls, the board can then cup twist and retain that state, which would indicated the latter is the state of equilibrium for that board, not the former. Maybe this applies to strip flooring too.

I'm talking about an installed assembly, where you have fasteners, or glue, and an interlocked T&G, and not improperly warehoused flooring, or framing grade yellow pine at the lumber yard that is milled at 15-19% MC and then left outside.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:34 PM   #20
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Re: Water Damaged Wood Floor Replacement


Chevy,

Here are some tips from NOFMA on flooded floors.

http://www.nofma.com/Portals/0/Publi...d%20Floors.pdf

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