VCT Repair

 
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Old 07-23-2008, 11:48 AM   #1
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VCT Repair


Hello ladies and gentlemen.
Im a hardwood floor guy and have been doing it for around 20 years.
Things are getting a little slow here in So. Cal and we are starting to venture into new and exciting areas like VCT
I have a job Im bidding that involves a substantial amount of patching. (cracked tiles and such)
Any words of wisdom?
Best way to remove existing tiles?
When can they be walked on?
?????
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:33 PM   #2
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Re: VCT Repair


T&M!

The question is, what are you going to do to correct the cracked substrate that is causing the tiles to crack??? You may be chasing the dragon, on this one.

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Old 07-23-2008, 01:02 PM   #3
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Re: VCT Repair


Exactly, Thats the question.
Do you have answers or are you just posting to post?
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:03 PM   #4
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Re: VCT Repair


One of the problems with trying to give tips on patchwork for VCT, is what you mean by substantial, for the most part. What is the existing material, is it asbestos or not, what is it installed over, how big is the area, etc. We have literally used 800-1000 pounds of patch for less than 4500 SF of tile.

Installing the VCT is the easy part, as long as you do everything right you can walk on it right away. I am more than happy to give some tips, but it requires alot more information.
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:26 PM   #5
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Re: VCT Repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonseed View Post
One of the problems with trying to give tips on patchwork for VCT, is what you mean by substantial, for the most part. What is the existing material, is it asbestos or not, what is it installed over, how big is the area, etc. We have literally used 800-1000 pounds of patch for less than 4500 SF of tile.

Installing the VCT is the easy part, as long as you do everything right you can walk on it right away. I am more than happy to give some tips, but it requires alot more information.

Sorry I think my terminology is a bit off.
By patching, I meant replacing damaged tiles. The store is around 50,000 sqft and the amount of damaged tiles is around 7000.
Floor actually came close as to ask the question "what are you going to do to correct the substrate that is causing the problem".
Im doing a little more research to find out the original manufacture of the existing VCT but the building was built in the late 80s. So I dont think asbestos is a problem.
The original flooring was installed with a cutback adhesive.
Just need a little direction in what to possibly expect
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:11 PM   #6
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Re: VCT Repair


7,000 damaged tiles?!!!

unless most of them are in relatively the same area, or you can identify what caused them to crack, I think you are going to be fighting a losing battle. I think you would be better off trying to convince them to replace the entire floor.

Otherwise you have to bid it as time and materials, chances are even if you have larger sections of damaged tiles interconnected, you will most likely have to remove 'undamaged' tiles to do floor prep, or to maintain some kind of consistency to the repair. You are going to be dealing with 20 years of wax, dirt, whatever other substances on the tile surface, cutback adhesive, and any number of deficiencies in the subfloor( It is starting to sound like it is a plywood subfloor, I can't imagine that many tiles cracking over concrete). I am assuming they want to stay open during the repair work, or have it done after hours.

You could start ripping up the damaged tiles only to find you have to remove twice as many as you thought to fix the problem, or you may pop them out, and not see anything awry at all (wishful thinking there)
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:24 AM   #7
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Re: VCT Repair


Quote:
Exactly, That's the question.
Do you have answers or are you just posting to post?
HEY!!!! I'm the resident wise-ass around here, your six posts don't qualify you for that distinction.

VCT is pretty simple and a brainless task. It's knowing and understanding the substrate dynamics that helps a little. Kinda surprises me that you claim wood knowledge while at the same time are puzzled by the care and feeding requirements of VCT.

There, that's my contribution from a guy that just wanted to make a mindless post just to make a post.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:38 AM   #8
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Re: VCT Repair




Simple.
Lift a tile, replace a tile.


Is is on top of a latex screed? When you lift the tile the screed may come away with it. Then that lifts the next tile. You have to screed the section that has lifted. Messy and slightly different heights.

There are a huge number of tips that can be given but experience is only gained by doing it.


107

Last edited by Taranis; 07-24-2008 at 10:39 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:32 PM   #9
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Re: VCT Repair


Your frustration, does not allow me to explain to you what you better already know, if you as a professional want to get paid to do the job and warranty it.

I said" You will be chasing the dragon" meaning your screwed if you touch it.
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Old 07-25-2008, 12:43 AM   #10
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Re: VCT Repair


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
HEY!!!! I'm the resident wise-ass around here, your six posts don't qualify you for that distinction.

VCT is pretty simple and a brainless task. It's knowing and understanding the substrate dynamics that helps a little. Kinda surprises me that you claim wood knowledge while at the same time are puzzled by the care and feeding requirements of VCT.

There, that's my contribution from a guy that just wanted to make a mindless post just to make a post.

WHAT SIZE IS YOUR SHOE. Sure is going to hurt when they remove it from your mouth.
Now I know what corn-fed means
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Old 07-26-2008, 06:45 AM   #11
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Re: VCT Repair


I use a torch to heat the tiles up. They peel easier that way.

7000 is alot of tile to rip up, are they individuals or in large areas?

Chances are the floor underneath is causing the tiles to fail. This repair may be better suited for someone with experience prepping floors for resilient.
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Old 07-26-2008, 08:15 AM   #12
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Re: VCT Repair


A 50,000sf floor built in the 80s, is most likely over concrete, and a floor leveler. If there is that much to do, you have either a floor leveler failure, or if the damages are along straight lines, then you have expansion joint failures. either way, you will have a fair amount of prep to do, as tiles directly over a sound substrate generally do not just crack.

When removing, keep in mind that many stores that have changed names, also remodeled, and that you may find 2 layers of floor, which is a bigger pain to remove if it is random damage, that is removed by hand. When prepping, the Gray mortar based leveling compounds are much better than the "Level-Best" type white compound, also more expensive.

If you have a problem with expansion joints, you may want to establish a mechanical joint in the tile itself, there are metal edgings available for this, but I have also seen repairs with a kerf in the tile, over the joint, that is filled with some type of caulking material,(I do not know how well this method holds up)

And don't let them scrub the repaired floor until you have a full cure.
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:03 PM   #13
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Re: VCT Repair


You are not going to find tile the same color to match. So it is not going to look good anyway. They need to start over.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:18 PM   #14
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Re: VCT Repair


I'll explain one thing...

Although asbestos tiles (VAT)were discontinued in the early eighties, but that was just what was being made. We were installing asbestos tile up into the early nineties, with what had been produced.

The back cutback, is a very good indicator, it by itself, could be old stock of asbestos cutback that was used. The tiles very well could be VAT and not VCT.

Like I said, if you have no idea what your getting into, which it is very clear to those that have gotten into just what your going for your rookie exam on, you will get in way over your head.

You may have to remove 20,000sq.ft or more, just to correctly repair the 7000sq.ft. of tiles, especially if it is random, and not isolated to one 7000 sq.ft. area.

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Last edited by Floordude; 07-27-2008 at 12:21 PM.
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