Sub installed wrong floors how to figure out cost difference? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

pmcdonald8 · 08-22-2009, 05:06 PM

Working on highend remodel (1.5 mil home)....New hardwood flooring 3/4" Brazillian Cherry (sand and finish).... Sub was contracted to install Clear Grade 6" X 8' (primarily) boards.... (note first time using this wood floor contractor-he came highly recommended by several other contractors and tradesmen - I am new to area, but have 25 years of experience)

There are NO boards over 65" with 85% 16" to 24"....My client (and I as my reputation is on the line) is, understandably, not happy.

Sub states they didn't receive the correct product and in the need to meet deadline chose to install and finish what they had received. Without telling me.

They are suppose to use only long term employees, some supposedly 30 years. Some of my other workers said the guy on the sander said it was his first floor job!

The floor should have a very consistant grain and coloration, due to grade and long boards....however it is very patchwork looking with dark heavy graining as well as tight graining...

Sanding is another issue....many places over sanded with divits and some boards with noticible graining and others very smooth.

Client doesn't want to live through removal of floors or resanding.....but not happy with finished product....Sub offered $1200 to $1500 off of a $24,000 job to accept floors as they are....to me laughable!

Any ideas of cost for these "shorts" (6" X 16"-24" boards).... I think if the client is willing to accept these floors (which I think should be removed and completely redone) there should be a "huge" rebate.

Thanks for any suggestions

**framerman** · 08-22-2009, 05:19 PM

Wait, I'm a little curious and lost. Wasn't the material brought to the jobsite at least a few days before the job started? Didn't you see this material before they started? Or show up when they were working on it? What about the HO?

1.5 million home, I am having a hard time believing there was not some type of supervision there.

**ChrWright** · 08-22-2009, 05:26 PM

Have you called the manufacturer? What's the difference in cost between the lower grade and as spec-ed materials?

Sounds like you have two issues as well... The wrong material, and a poor installation. Has the sub been paid?

**framerman** · 08-22-2009, 05:44 PM

void

**Floorwizard** · 08-22-2009, 06:00 PM

Pricing is tough, I have no idea where you are or other factors.

as far as replacement, I agree.
Who pays for it and how is an issue you will need to figure.

Saying that, I will also say that if a wrong product is installed (never happened yet) or there is a flaw (most likely my issue) then manufacturers do not accept compensation.
as far as they are concerned they want their clients to be happy with the floor, even if it means more work being done in the home.
I bet you have a better chance of the client doing business with you again if you make things right instead of taking little or no profit on the job and having their floor be "not quite right"
Sometimes explaining this professionalism can impress clients more than negotiations.

bwalley · 08-22-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmcdonald8

Working on highend remodel (1.5 mil home)....New hardwood flooring 3/4" Brazillian Cherry (sand and finish).... Sub was contracted to install Clear Grade 6" X 8' (primarily) boards.... (note first time using this wood floor contractor-he came highly recommended by several other contractors and tradesmen - I am new to area, but have 25 years of experience)

There are NO boards over 65" with 85% 16" to 24"....My client (and I as my reputation is on the line) is, understandably, not happy.

Sub states they didn't receive the correct product and in the need to meet deadline chose to install and finish what they had received. Without telling me.

They are suppose to use only long term employees, some supposedly 30 years. Some of my other workers said the guy on the sander said it was his first floor job!

The floor should have a very consistant grain and coloration, due to grade and long boards....however it is very patchwork looking with dark heavy graining as well as tight graining...

Sanding is another issue....many places over sanded with divits and some boards with noticible graining and others very smooth.

Client doesn't want to live through removal of floors or resanding.....but not happy with finished product....Sub offered $1200 to $1500 off of a $24,000 job to accept floors as they are....to me laughable!

Any ideas of cost for these "shorts" (6" X 16"-24" boards).... I think if the client is willing to accept these floors (which I think should be removed and completely redone) there should be a "huge" rebate.

Thanks for any suggestions

Where were you when the floor was installed?

The floor needs to come out and the one your client chose put in, he will never be happy with this floor.

$1500 off is crazy, ask get the sub to knock $15,000 or more off of the botched job.

If I had a sub install the wrong flooring, especially since he knew it, they would not get paid anything, as now it is going to cost more to replace the floor, than before they started because now there is demo and the old flooring is firewood.

This is the kind of thing that happens when you don't watch your subs, a GC's main job is supervision of the subs, if you aren't going to watch them why are you even there?

bert0168 · 08-23-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwalley

Where were you when the floor was installed?

If I had a sub install the wrong flooring, especially since he knew it, they would not get paid anything, as now it is going to cost more to replace the floor, than before they started because now there is demo and the old flooring is firewood.

This is the kind of thing that happens when you don't watch your subs, a GC's main job is supervision of the subs, if you aren't going to watch them why are you even there?

Absolutely yes to what bwalley said!

I can't believe the sub admitted that fact and still installed it.

F the deadline, if it isn't right, don't do it.

And yes, where the heck were you on this 1.5 mil job? At least stopping by once a day. I stop by on jobs I have subs at almost every day and I'm not even in the same universe of 1.5 mil.

I hope at least your sub hasn't been paid yet.

BCConstruction · 08-23-2009, 09:08 AM

Seems crazy to me that your not on your $1.5m development keeping check on the work and problems. Thats the kind of job you have a site agent on there most of the day. He should have least called you to tell you that he had the wrong flooring turn up and shouldn't have fitted it until he spoke to you anyway. Also seems crazy to me that a contractor would even fit something that was wrong. I have never come across anyone who has done that on purpose. I work for 2 brothers who do just 2 modest houses a year and they are on site everyday for at least 6-8 hours until the build is complete.

If it was me i would check to make sure customer is happy with the type of flooring and then get all imperfections sorted and get the difference back for the different boards that were used.

the big 12 inch · 08-23-2009, 09:20 AM

It sounds to me that you are a person(contractor/homeowner?)that is in way over your head on a project and are here to FISH for answers for what went wrong!!.The finger should point directly at you!!.Thats how I see it..

rusty baker · 08-23-2009, 12:05 PM

Yep, when you point a finger, four of 'em are pointing back at you.

WNYcarpenter · 08-23-2009, 01:24 PM

For what it's worth....we let our flooring acclimate for a while checking the moisture levels of the sub-floor and hardwood. Even if the levels are where we want them when the lumber is delivered, the flooring is usually sitting for some period of time before we start installing. Ample time to catch the problem.

Our cardinal rule is to inspect all deliveries for defects or that it is the correct product upon delivery, usually done by the job foreman or PM.

for a 1.5 mil job and the flooring was 24K, with sanding, it wasn't done in 1 day! Both sub and GC are resposible. Neglect

IMO these problems are less likely when there's a job foreman/ PM who's responsibility is to make sure mistakes like this don't happen.

concretemasonry · 08-23-2009, 01:46 PM

I think the original poster was scared off. The job was not $1.5 million but just a remodel on the house as I read it. - Sounds like an amateur. Any job must have the materials approved before laying, so the contractor was a fault for laying it if he saw a problem and did not get approval. I suspect the contract with the sub is loose if it exists.

Who bought the materials?

BKM Resilient · 08-23-2009, 05:57 PM

That the installer needs to bring that sanding and finishing up to standards or he would be liable for the cost of another shop to come out and do the work.

If the customer wants to keep the floor he owes for the material. He should pay ZERO for the labor. That seems fair to me.

AcademyHardwood · 08-27-2009, 01:10 PM

Where does your client live ? When spending 24K on a 1.5M Home - there is no way that a miserable 1500$ discount can make up for the potential ruin of an entire home (the hardwood brings all the pieces together). Why would you take such a large risk on a project of that caliber ?

My suggestion would of been to return the Hardwood and receive the right "product". First of all.

Also, hire an individual who knows exactly how to use a sanding machine..

Many things have been done wrong. You need Qualified labor, top of the line products and serious professionalism.

Floordude · 08-27-2009, 04:10 PM

Does the flooring represent the sample and the contract?

Too bad he admitted it was the wrong stuff. It may have been the exact stuff, only shown a small sample, and now that it is installed someone is having buyers remorse.

An offer was made so that final payment would be made somewhat quicker. Have any of you done that, so you can just get paid and be done with that one in every million(not very often), problem client?

cbfx3 · 08-27-2009, 05:42 PM

In this particular situation Sub and GC should each chip in