Sagging Main Beam! - Page 3 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

**loneframer** · 02-23-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

The house will talk to you alright,
but someone there has to know
what she's sayin'.

Yessir, I understand houses much better than I did my ex-wife. Of course my ex moaned and groaned louder and more often.

wizendwizard · 02-23-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsremodeling

I would try to contact the insurance company. Like I mentioned they might cover the damages. She has nothing to loose by trying

I'm going to call her tomorrow and let her know that we have some possible solutions. We'll see what she has to say about tasking this further.

wizendwizard · 02-23-2009, 10:18 PM

Going back to something Aggie mentioned, should I really attach joist hangers BEFORE we get this beam jacked up?

I know what i'm thinking the answer is but I wil wait and see!

JBMagi · 02-23-2009, 10:20 PM

I used to deal with this from time ti time. I had a friend who did house jacking and moving. I would try to find some one like that with some long heavy duty steal. Then you can slide in the two beams parallel to the main and jack them up from outside the foundation. Do this slowly over a few days to minimize the shock to the structure. Than once 1/8th or so above desired hight you can do whatever you need to replace or repair the main and let the weight back down. I would recomend some old railroad jacks as they are strong, safe, and mechanical (cant blow a seal). Good Luck

neolitic · 02-23-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizendwizard

Going back to something Aggie mentioned, should I really attach joist hangers BEFORE we get this beam jacked up?

I know what i'm thinking the answer is but I wil wait and see!

That will let it all mve together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBMagi

I used to deal with this from time ti time. I had a friend who did house jacking and moving. I would try to find some one like that with some long heavy duty steal. Then you can slide in the two beams parallel to the main and jack them up from outside the foundation. Do this slowly over a few days to minimize the shock to the structure. Than once 1/8th or so above desired hight you can do whatever you need to replace or repair the main and let the weight back down. I would recomend some old railroad jacks as they are strong, safe, and mechanical (cant blow a seal). Good Luck

Two more beams under the joist
are going to seriously cut into
the spacious 13½" headroom.

wizendwizard · 02-23-2009, 10:34 PM

The key to this project is to not do further damage to the home in any way. The I beam trick does work for house movers. It is not practicle in this situation.

This goes the same for ripping the flooring out. These things just are NOT going to happen.

If I have to excavate the whole underside of the house out with camp shovels I will get this done without doing damage to the floors or foundation.

On that note, I'm going to bed. Have a good night all and Thanks again.

cleveman · 02-23-2009, 11:28 PM

Good morning!

I'll post it again. Hire a guy to raise the structure. Drive under it with an excavator. You'll have about 6' of headroom then. They can raise the house up on cribbing.

Next, call some guys to pour footings and basement walls.

Step 3-lower the structure. It will come back down the same as it went up.

Now you have a basement under the house. You can frame a wall or whatever under the center beam.

I'm thinking $20K to do this. And you'll have a basement underneath when you're done, can you dig it?

PA woodbutcher · 02-24-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleveman

Good morning!

I'll post it again. Hire a guy to raise the structure. Drive under it with an excavator. You'll have about 6' of headroom then. They can raise the house up on cribbing.

Next, call some guys to pour footings and basement walls.

Step 3-lower the structure. It will come back down the same as it went up.

Now you have a basement under the house. You can frame a wall or whatever under the center beam.

I'm thinking $20K to do this. And you'll have a basement underneath when you're done, can you dig it?

All that for 20 grand??

I think you have all the advice you really need. The information is ALL here. It all depends on what her budget is. I have done the same thing numerous times as most of the houses that I work on are 100 years old or older. If your shooting for perfect, you my have a long way to go. I also agree with using the railroad (or bugle) jacks if you can find them. If you can get a laser down there and find out exactly where it's the worst and how far you have to go before even starting, would also be a help.

tom m · 02-24-2009, 08:51 AM

Let's see .....this is a center bearing house so above those piers is likely a wall thats bears the weight of the attic floor or second floor right? Is there a large opening pass through on the main floor? Is it possible there is a point load that lands right where the dam sag is? Sometime ya need to see how it got this far.

bob_cntrctr · 02-24-2009, 09:26 AM

Uh - I'm surprised not to find anywhere in this thread mention of the earth the ceenter beam piers are sitting on. A 60-year old house with 2-inches of settling? I know, no footings, but still, those piers are what, 18" x 18"? Practically a footing in themeselves. I would think step one is check the soil before deciding how big the footings for new piers would be - maybe something's up.

Next - just how critical is it that the floors be rendered perfectly true? Millions of older homes have some sag to their floors and people live in them just fine every day. What's really important is not so much the current amount of sag, but stopping future sag that may become damaging to the structure. But if muscling the house back to perfect true is going to be a major pain and cost, or cause damage, maybe just jacking back to 1-inch of sag and planing a few door bottoms will suffice. Sometimes perfection is our enemy.

JBMagi · 02-24-2009, 09:31 AM

I assumed the floor was being ripped out. If this is not the case then my beams would make any work impossible. Maybe try and slide under and jack the beam directly after joist hanging as some of the other guys said. Or maybe you could rent one of those tunneling machines I see on tv bore under the house then work on it.

http://www.bullhomeimprovement.com

wizendwizard · 02-24-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob_cntrctr

Uh - I'm surprised not to find anywhere in this thread mention of the earth the ceenter beam piers are sitting on. A 60-year old house with 2-inches of settling? I know, no footings, but still, those piers are what, 18" x 18"? Practically a footing in themeselves. I would think step one is check the soil before deciding how big the footings for new piers would be - maybe something's up.

Next - just how critical is it that the floors be rendered perfectly true? Millions of older homes have some sag to their floors and people live in them just fine every day. What's really important is not so much the current amount of sag, but stopping future sag that may become damaging to the structure. But if muscling the house back to perfect true is going to be a major pain and cost, or cause damage, maybe just jacking back to 1-inch of sag and planing a few door bottoms will suffice. Sometimes perfection is our enemy.

There are exterior and interior renderings on this thread that shows where the walls are in comparison to the joist underneath. All angles are from the same POV.

We are not looking for perfectly true floors. I will work up a rendering to show how the kitchen looks and the effect it is having on the HO's life.

Now if you will notice the yellow marking.

That indicates the down angle we are dealing with on the interior.

This shows that the outer beams of the foundation are still level.

It also shows that the center beam has sagged 2" at the point where the 4 rooms meet.

This is why I said that the center beam hold all of the weight of the house.

fixitpete · 02-24-2009, 04:56 PM

Sounds like you don't want to fix the actual sag, just make the floor look nice.

Or did I miss something?

wizendwizard · 02-24-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixitpete

Sounds like you don't want to fix the actual sag, just make the floor look nice.

Or did I miss something?

I want to fix the sag, I'm not contracted to fix the sag. I was contracted to fix the wavey floors. This has been done. The purpose of my posting here was to gather needed information from other professionals in order to present that information to my customer for future repair options.

I sold myself to her on the repair of wavey floors. Now I am prepared to offer her options for further repairs. This is a business for the future, not the now.

fixitpete · 02-25-2009, 07:51 AM

Fair enough. I don't know how you can fix the floor without fixing the structure... unless you think, for sure, that the house isn't going to move anymore... then I guess that would sort of be called "fixing the wavy floor".

My bad.

rbsremodeling · 03-02-2009, 06:44 PM

Welp

I bidded this exact same job to day.

If i get it I will take pics and video as we go along. The house is fawked up.

12 contractors came out and all either refused to bid or did not return calls on the job

WarnerConstInc. · 03-02-2009, 07:29 PM

Can I come play with you on that one Rory, I love moving around beams in old houses, its fun.

rbsremodeling · 03-02-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc.

Can I come play with you on that one Rory, I love moving around beams in old houses, its fun.

I am going to go out with my guys and the engineer before I start. if anyone looks at me iffy I am out of there.

This will be the hardest one I have done to date, its bad. Access is nil and the beam is gone.

House is worth about a 1Mil

Your more than welcome to I'd pay you to help, keep your fingers crossed

neolitic · 03-02-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsremodeling

I am going to go out with my guys and the engineer before I start. if anyone looks at me iffy I am out of there.

This will be the hardest one I have done to date, its bad. Access is nil and the beam is gone.

House is worth about a 1Mil

Your more than welcome to I'd pay you to help, keep your fingers crossed

We'll tell your next of kin
what a great guy you were!

Or we could be honest
if you'd rather?

rbsremodeling · 03-02-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

We'll tell your next of kin
what a great guy you were!

Or we could be honest
if you'd rather?

After 38 years on this planet I think they know the truth