Sagging Main Beam!

wizendwizard

Dirt eating! Belly crawling! Back scraping! Should I go on?

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Tom M

You literally built a permanant block pier under each joist? Holey crap. You could have just done 4 and slipped in a another beam at that point. Wow, I cant believe you did all that. What size joist were they? The span is 15ft so at least 2x8 right?

wizendwizard

They aren't permanant piers. Once I get the beam jacked up or replaced they are removable.

Upon first entering the home I found the floors were like waves on a lake. Up one side, down the next. I pulled a string from doorway to doorway inside the house and jacked each joist to level the floor front to back. When that was done we discovered the down pitch from right to center and left to center.

Jacking each joist brought most of the sag out of the floor but we still have the center (inside) wall sagging about 2" front to center and back to center.

The joist are TRUE 2x8 rough cut or hewn.

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skymaster

Wiz????? OK now y'all got this Yankee really confused. Per your quote, you have ALL the joists leveled and on piers, therefore if that is true, The CENTER Beam is NOT supporting anything. If the floor has a dip you should be able to put new footers in, then jack it up as much as you dare, put in new piers. Sawzall the nails off to the floor and just shim the floor back to level off the beam.

Neo; Ya like my Corsair eh?

neolitic

The joist are ledgered off the beam?


And does th beam have a splice
at each pier?

You ain't makin' this easy.

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wizendwizard

Ledgered, Ha!
I wished they were.
Straight nailed, no ledger, no hangers.
You can actually see the sag in the center beam.
No splices in the center beam..... It's a rough hewn 30' tree heart 12"x12".
I think I'm just going to have to get the engineers out to advise me on this.
Thanks for the advice guys.

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neolitic

Right up there with the Mustang and
Spitfire, as one of the prettiest things
ever flown by man.


Engineer is good.
He might say, try some cribbing,
either side of the center piers.
Cribbing near the pilasters.
Remove piers and pilasters,
then dig and pour pads where
they were, and one more where
the greatest sag in the beam is.
When concrete is cured build new piers,
or put in steel posts.
Then crib either side of the lowest sag
in the beam, cut it, jack it, build a pier.

Then lots of joist hangers, or......





5 gal. gasoline and a fuzee.

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rbsremodeling

Take the damn floor up and start over. Replace the main beam and sister or replace joist as needed.

I did one last summer about the same size we where done in a week with inspections.

I know it hurts but you need to see everything that is going on underneath as you jack it up. Trust me.

the home owners are not going to want the floors to come up but trust me you want to take them up. There is other damage in their you wont see until the floors come up

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neolitic

Post #9
He's younger, hungrier, and more flexible
than I am.

Wish I could say, I never did
anything this dumb.....

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wizendwizard

Great idea, remove all of the new carpeting and laminate flooring. Cut through the 3/4" diagonal t&g subflooring. Rip all of that out. Jack the main beam up. Pour new footers and stack 4 new piers. Replace with new subfloor, repair all the drywall and plaster thats going to crack, reinstall all the new flooring products.

$50,000 easy....... Ya! I don't think this little lady that gets a disability check every month is going to go for this, but I'll try it.

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There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant, they are either illegal or immigrants.
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rbsremodeling

I missed your post earlier I am trying to find some pics of it to post for him

I have done so many of these and by the time you cut the holes your like I should have taken the damn floor up

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rbsremodeling

Would her insurance company cover the cost of repairs?? or there might be a program for the ederly that might cover the cost. there are a few programs here for seniors that help out with this stuff.

I would call out the insurance company on this for a start

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wizendwizard

Needless to say, the HO is happy with what I've done to this point. The reason I presented this to you guys is simple. I hate leaving a job that I'm not 100% satisfied that I did everything I could have to get it right.

Thanks for all the ideas and comments. You guy's are great!

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There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant, they are either illegal or immigrants.
I'm Retired, or a student, don't really know anymore.

neolitic

Don't misunderstand, I admire
the grit it took to get what you've
done already.
Not to mention being jealous that it
probably would have put me in traction!

Go for it a piece at a time,
if that'll work for you/her.
All of the pours don't have to
be at one go, and they need
at least 7 days cure before they're
loaded anyway.
It's cool you want to help her out.


You know how you eat an elephant,
right?

BTW:
I do really know first hand
what you've had to do under there.

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wizendwizard

Something to the effect of " One bite at a time!"

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Aggie67

I'm a licensed engineer and a contractor, and I've jacked everything from houses to 100 foot long rotary kilns, and I rarely do pro bono stuff, but this is a nice juicy project. And I base this on perfect conditions.

First of all, I would have a talk with the home owner and ask her if it's a 100% level floor she's looking for. This maybe just me, but it sounds like it's you that wants the 100% level floor. Or maybe you told her you could get it there, and you're working hard to get to that point, and that's totally admirable. As we say in Jersey, props brother.

But I'm going to be brutally honest here, because that's how we all learn right? I have the utmost respect for you for your efforts to date, because I can tell by the info you posted that you have some passion in there about this project. And I mean this (this post) in a totally positive manner, but I think you could have saved some effort (and her some money) if you involved us all or a local engineer a little earlier. My experience is telling me that the correct mitigation plan would have been to focus first on the center piers, and then the joists if needed. Any maybe it was a case of you hitting the low hanging fruit first, which is a good tact to take on a budget. But I think what you'll learn from this is what I learned early on: it's best to find the main culprit, and attack it with every thing you have.

My advice here is to first install joist hangers all around. I hear you, that they're true size, so you'll have to search some for the right hangers. Then rent 8 screw jacks, one for each ordinate of each pier. I can rent 20 ton jobs that are a foot to two feet tall for $90 a month up here in NJ. The ones I use have 5-10 inch travels, depending on which model. Get someone to make up some cribbing or flat plates for you to set on the ground. You might have to futz around with a separate bottle jack to lift it. We have three 20 ton low profile side arm jobs that we can jack up the thickness of a 2x10, then reposition the main screw jack, then slide another 2x10 in, bottle jack it up, etc, etc. Jack it up off the old piers, little bit at a time, and each day check it. While it's up, excavate and pour proper footings, and shim it proper. Have an engineer size them up. No sense over designing them yourself. I understand that all of that is going to happen while you're on your belly. But that's the procedure I'd recommend.

After that was done, I'd look into the joist sag. I would mitigate them with a small steel beam (W6? it depends) and small jack posts every 6 or 8 feet with footings right down the middle of the span, which you accomplished with the block. The beam cost is $9 a foot maybe, and each 9 ton jack post is $110 (permanent). Have the engineer work up footings for them, but I can't see it being anything worse than a 2'x'2'x2'er. Use the jack post to raise the elevation, set it, and leave it there permanent. Just make sure to tie the beam flange edges to each joist.

You're doing an admirable job in mitigating the problems with the piers. I think now you should look at getting the homeowner the biggest bang for her buck, if she really wants it. If you were in my area, I'd be on this like white on rice, just to get her situated in a safe structure and you out of there "whole", as we say.

And you have the benefit of a zillion years of expertise here on CT. We'll all weigh in, and you'll come out the other end armed with some knowledge. This thread, I think, is what this site was created for. I would take that knowledge and go to an engineer, with the goal in mind to help this lady get to the point where her house is sound and her bank account is as intact as possible.

rbsremodeling

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loneframer

Anytime we raise a sag like that, we jack until the telltale creak, then let it go for a few days. Repeat process until satisfactory results are achieved. Slow and steady wins the race. 2 " in one day will pretty much guarantee a miriad of problems, you could break the beam using the all at once method. Remember, it took 60 years to get this way.

rbsremodeling

I would try to contact the insurance company. Like I mentioned they might cover the damages. She has nothing to loose by trying

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neolitic

The house will talk to you alright,
but someone there has to know
what she's sayin'.

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