Resin Flooring

Taranis

I put this thread into Specialty Coatings forum but that doesn't seem to be read all that much so I'll try this one.


Hello there.
Anyone using this site carry out resin flooring work?
I am based in Scotland though do work throughout the UK and Europe (if I'm lucky) and my company carries out work in industrial, commercial and residential environments.
We use the main manufacturers materials (Altro, Resdev, Sika etc.) but have developed our own resins and have sourced aggregates to give us a far wider porfolio. We can now offer over 1 million colour combinations using coloured quartz, glass, metals and epoxy terrazzo.
It would be good to hear from someone else in the trade.

Bud Cline

Rock and resins as surface coatings have been around for a long long time in the U.S., maybe forty years or more. I was at one time recently interested in one of those products and became associated with such a provider for a short time, first as an installer and then as a sales agent. I was there until I realized the many issues of quality that exist with these products being used outdoors. In the southern U.S. they seem to fair well but in the northern climates and contrary to the manufacturers claims they don't seem to do as well outside.

Freeze/thaw appears to be an issue even though the makers say not and exposure to sunlight is a serious concern requiring the product to be sunscreened and receive annual coatings of sunscreen to promote and insure the life of the product. This in my estimation makes them a high-maintenance product.

Since it is almost impossible to get a retailer to understand the limits of any flooring product it is impossible to not have performance issues due to the overselling of customer expectations by unknowledgeable sales people.

For my interest the stuff just isn't worth the effort.

Taranis

Resins can be used outside, you just need to know which ones to use. It used to be the case that polyurethanes would yellow in UV light but new formulations mean that UV stable resins are available. This is also the case for epoxy. As well as these there are acrylics and other resins which can be used outside. These ones will not need annual coating.
I would say that resins are not suited to retail anyway. (Although that's not to say they can't be used for residential, some of our finishes are beautiful). Only specialists should use them. There are so many different resins within each resin type and each resin has it's own uniique preparation. Each will be more or less affected by other influences such as moisture, other chemicals in the subfloor and mixing/curing.
Any reputable manufacturer would not sell to someone who does not have sufficient experience with the above.
As the resin is in-situ with the concrete, freeze/thaw shouldn't be an issue. Provided the correct resin has been specified.

Bud Cline

All I know is the founder of this particular company is a chemical engineer specializing in resins. GO FIGURE! Maybe you could teach him a thing or two. I also know what they were selling doesn't work all that well around here and absolutely must have a periodic suncreen coating to keep the installation from ambering. I further know that this product does not "become-one" with the concrete in all cases. I also know I regret getting involved.

Taranis

Yes, it can be frustrating at times.
Sometimes (especially with Acrylic resin) things happen that you know shouldn't. There have been many times I've pulled my hair out trying to get to the bottom of why a particular resin failed. But I've still got most of my hair left after all these years so no long term side effect.
If it doesn't become one with the sustrate then it has failed.
In order for any resin to work it must be firmly attached to the subfloor. due to the thickness (or thinness!!) of the resin. There is the most important aspect, preparation. Mechanical and chemical.
I have plans to do my back patio with resin. When, or if, I get time.

Bill_Vincent

Years ago, my father was good friends with Art Robbins, who founded Ascon Seamless flooring in Niantic, Connecticut. My father "lent" me out to him when I was an apprentice, not only as a favor to Art, but also to give me a taste of the trade. I don't see what the big deal was about installing those floors. I did the sand grit, paint chip, and colored epoxy (paint) floors-- and not a one of them was tough at all, or even really time consuming, to install, but they were getting between 12-15.00 a foot labor for us to install them!! I know it was union, but even nonunion , the labor costs would be such that a few thousand feet, and you're ready to retire! Of course, with the epoxy and polyester resins you're working with, your nose will start to rot off your face, and your kids will be born with a third eye...

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

Taranis

I have noticed in previous Contractortalk posts that most of the resins used in North America bear no resemblance to the ones we use.
Let me explain before someone gets on their high horse.
In some posts people have mixed epoxy resin, let it sit for a while (10-20 mins from memory) then remixed it and applied it. That was just a coating but it has been a very long time since I've heard that being done. Also our resins contain no solvent and haven't done for at least 10 years.
Yes, there is the skin reaction thing with resins. There is no doubting that but housekeeping and PPE take care of that. There is always the exception where someone is allergic to a particular resin but that can't be helped.
I've been using resins for 23 years - including the time when solvents where in everything- and don't have dermatitis yet. Touch wood.
I recently went to see a job I did 20 years ago in a milk packaging plant for work to a drain and the floor is still there looking good. Running water on it 24 hours a day 6 days a week and my chest swelled when I saw it. Should get a medal!!

Painting a floor is easy enough but when you get to the heavier stuff, 3-9 mm, then it does cost a lot of money. Materials aren't cheap. Nor is training the guys.
I sound as if I'm ancient but glad to have a lot of experience to fall back on.

Bill_Vincent

Taranis-- I'd like to say that things have improved since then (that was about 23 years ago) but they haven't. Recently I was asked to give a price for installing a seamless floor for the first time SINCE that time, and I called down to Ascon's office and asked them to send me some materials. About the only improvement I saw in the literature is that their resins are all UV resistant now, whereas when I was using them, UV resistant resins were available, but they were an upcharge. They're still using pretty much the same resins, though, other than that. It kinda surprises me, too, because I also used to pour terrazzo, and one of the chemical terrazzos I've worked with used a polyester resin-- the very same resin used in fiberglassing-- and the last job I did with the poly was in 1983 at a sewage treatment plant in Southington, Ct., because almost immediately after that, they OUTLAWED the use of the polyester resin for use in terrazzo because of how explosive (as well as carcenogenic) the fumes were. But it's still okay when used with seamless floors. Go figure.

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

Taranis

I think the polyester would be what we call an acrylic resin. I don't like to use the stuff and change the spec whenever I come against it on a contract.
When I first started using it we were told "it's ok, just a strong smell" then about 8 years later we had to start using organic respirators and have monitoring all the while we were laying.
At that point I said no way am I using that. And went on to use other resins instead. Another reason for not using it, when other people smell it they think they are being drugged and are "feeling sick".
We use mostly epoxy terrazzo although there is sometimes a call for Pu terrazo. We have just won a contract yesterday to install 300 odd m2 in a new mall. It's to be done in circles inside ceramic tiles.
Cheers

Bill_Vincent

Unless there's a difference in terms, it's not acrylic. We also have acrylic "resins" over here, if you want to call them that. More like a milk, though. The smell is still strong, but it's more of an amonia smell, than a solvent. As for the epoxy terrazzo, my family's company did alot of that, as well, mostly in pharmaceutical R&D labs around the state, and hospital operating rooms, where there was a need for non-static floors. I DID do a mall store entrance once, though, in black and white epoxy, made to lookj like piano keys, as well as a couple of art stores ate two different malls in tri color design terrazzo. I loved doing that kind of stuff!! I'll see if I can dig out pics and post em later.

Man, this is going down memory lane!!

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

Taranis

Aye, indeed it is.
I like doing the design work too. We do a couple of pubs/nightclubs a month as well as retail/high end residential work in addition to the industrial stuff.
Sure beats working with Main Contractors who couldn't run a menage.
The acrylic you speak of is latex (or a man made version of latex). It does have ammonia in it but is used under carpets and vinyls. When we need to build up for resin we use a water based screed that has polymer as it's binder. It can be pumped too. Resin breaks down the latex so we can't use it.
It'd be good to see some of your photos. I have intended to post some of mine but it takes time to reduce the size (I can be lazy).