regrouting restaurant kitchen floor - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

97s-dime · 11-04-2008, 02:58 PM

First off let me introduce myself I am new to the forum my name is chris I am a private contractor mostly doing small rehabs of houses, however my girlfriend is a gm of a restaurant and badly needs her kitchen tile regrouted.

i have installed tons of tiles and grouted them all, i have regrouted by pulling out old grout and laying down new grout.

im not sure if the grout used originally was epxoy or not, my questions is if the grout was the portlend type would it be possible to regrout over it with epoxy, would i need to get as much old grout out as possible. what other things do i need to take into account. what do i charge per square foot for labor (keep in mind i'm trying to help out because it is my girlfriends place but i need to be paid for my time) any and all help is appreciated, i am confident i can do the job just need more infomation. (am i wrong)

Floordude · 11-04-2008, 05:56 PM

$2 to clean the greasy floor
$2 to remove existing
$2 to mess with epoxy grout
$2 for dust control

Your area of the country may demand more, or may demand less.

Less than 200 sq.ft would be more per sq.ft.

97s-dime · 11-04-2008, 07:57 PM

should i even mess with the epoxy, or would portland type grout sealed be alright to stand up against grease for a couple years ( again im not sure what's there and wouldnt know how to tell my guess is portland type since building is only two years old and grout is pretty far gone.)

would it be possible to do sections of the floor at a time, because she does not want to close for a day i would start at night and work through the night with a two or three man crew

how deep would you recommend getting rid of the old grout, its pretty worn down, not so bad the tiles are coming up yet but not far off. would it be alright to just grout over current grout,

i normally wouldn't think this way but her boss wants it done cheap and quickly. she is getting bids from 150000 to 8000 i don't know what the actual sq ft is but 8000 is to much in her bosses opinion.

thanks guys

SelfContract · 11-04-2008, 08:24 PM

Don't do it. Let other contractor do it. The worst-case scenario is you will mess up badly ... she'll got fired... or/and you guys will broke up. There is no best-case scenario either.

Don't hope for it (satisfaction guaranteed??)

Bud Cline · 11-04-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Don't do it.

NONSENSE....This is easy money.

I should be sending YOU a bill for this information....

Quote:

...building is only two years old and grout is pretty far gone.

And how have they been routinely cleaning the floor up to now? If the grout is that far gone my guess is it is Portland cement grout probably incorrectly installed to begin with. Go scratch on it and see if it is sandy and dusty when you torture it. If it is...it's Portland cement grout.

If you still can't tell then use a heat gun on a small section and see if the grout peels with a utility knife when heated. If it peels...it's epoxy. And that is how it will have to be removed - with heat.

Commercial kitchen floors can have a short life span. When you redo it be sure to mix the grout properly as dry as possible and work it into the joints. Don't mix it so thin that it pours into the joints, that is probably what is wrong with it to begin with.

Quote:

would it be possible to do sections of the floor at a time, because she does not want to close for a day i would start at night and work through the night with a two or three man crew

Sure, why not?
Be sure to give yourself enough time for the grout to heal before the kitchen opens each morning. Don't allow anyone to flood that floor for about three days after the grout is in.

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..how deep would you recommend getting rid of the old grout,

Dig it out all the way to the substrate, this shouldn't be too difficult under the circumstances. Use a grinder and diamond blade or a Grout Grabber tool on a recip saw if not a power washer. Before you do that if the surroundings permit, I would first try a power washer. A pencil point at 2400psi will remove cement grout right now. Build a 2X4 wood frame the size of a beach towel then staple a cheap beach towel over the frame. This way you can control the mess and deflect the spray to keep it out of everything. If there are no floor drains a wet-vac will also be required.

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...would it be alright to just grout over current grout,

Absolutely not!!! If you take that shortcut then the next time the floor fails it will be your problem. Dig it all out and do it correctly.

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...i don't know what the actual sq ft is but 8000 is to much in her bosses opinion.

How can you not know what the square footage is? How you going to buy enough grout if you don't know how much you need?

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but 8000 is to much in her bosses opinion.

You don't tell him how much to charge for his meals do you?

Here's something else...
Tarp EVERYTHING ahead of time especially the dishes and anything else that leaves the kitchen on a regular basis. If you run the overhead exhaust system be sure the damned thing isn't greasy before you suck a bunch of dust through it. Power washer is the best way to go for a lot of reasons.

Mike Costello · 11-04-2008, 11:42 PM

That post made me want to go do the job

Bud Cline · 11-05-2008, 10:09 AM

I have done a bunch of restaurant kitchens over the years, mostly motel kitchens where there wasn't gonna be no closing the kitchen for very long.

The grout usually goes to hell in a hurry if it is cement grout. The grease and chemicals used in that environment are generally your friend in several ways. Typically the grout is easy to remove in most areas because it is permeated with acids and oils and harsh cleaning chemicals. Keeping the place clean or leaving the place clean when you leave every day is the real burden.

Usually the owners will pay what you ask if it is reasonable and truth be known they are under orders from the Health Department to get it done even tho they may not volunteer that information. Their alternative is usually a "Red Tag" and a mandatory shut down and no food service operator wants that to happen.

97s-dime · 11-05-2008, 05:15 PM

thank you so much bud that was a wealth of information. i owe you one. i haven't taken measurements of the kitchen as I am not sure I will try and take the job as i would have never thought about it till my girlfriend suggested it, with all the information from bud i'm pretty sure i will.

would it be worth it to use epoxy grout, or would correctly installed portland be just fine, how long should i wait before sealing, i have heard all types of answers, i usually wait at least 24 hours but that is residential and most times in empty homes for rehab.

if you guys want post your favorite brands of grout and sealer and why

i really appreciate all the fast responses, as you can see its more of a favor for my girlfriend and i am not trying to make much money for my time.

Bud Cline · 11-05-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

would it be worth it to use epoxy grout

Some local governments require epoxy grout in food service kitchens so you'll need to check into that locally.

Personally I hate epoxy grouts but sometimes they are just a necessary evil. With new tile installations they aren't so bad but with greasy rehabs they can be a pisser. I would avoid epoxy if I could. Besides if this guy is a cheapo he won't understand the up charge (both product and labor) for using epoxy grout.

Quote:

would correctly installed Portland be just fine

My opinion is if you use a main stream modified grout a sealer would be almost useless. Sealers are sometimes more of a feel good potion for the customer than they are a protectant of the grout. Besides have you noticed most all food service kitchen grouts are black. They don't always start out that way but in a short time they turn black. Grease! Grease is the sealant. It serves as both the sealer and the invader - GO FIGURE!

Houston's · 11-15-2008, 05:12 PM

Thank you so much Bud

I need the same help on restruant that i am remodeling..

i cant wait to show yall some pics.

rservices · 11-15-2008, 05:34 PM

I do a lot of re-grouting in restaurants, this is what I posted on an other forum

What I do is,

4 1/2 inch grinder (2 diamond wheels) I took the plate off a old jig saw and screwed it in to the grinder handle holes. This acts as a depth gage, and ease's the strain on my forearms.

a shop vac with a hepa filter, I found it easier to hold the grinder in one hand and the vac hose in the other.

I grind out the old grout. With the 2 cutting wheels it is just shy of most grout line, one restaurant I had to use 3 blades, I try not to make more than 2 passes.

I also find it necessary only to remove about 2/3 of the old grout, I've been told thats all I need to remove with the epoxy s, and if you cut to deep you will find a lot of tiles popping.

Generally I work in a 2 to 3 foot area at a time. What ever your comfortable with (you'll move along faster if you stay if your not reaching to much, not to mention sore back and shoulders)

After you've cut all of the lines, wet mop the area (this traps any extra dust in the water, then shop vac the floor getting all of the water and dust out).

I use spectralock epoxy, the cost is high but when you consider the cost of labor and how much area you can grout by your self it's worth every penny.

Expect tiles to come up, I always bring at least a case of tile with me to a re-grout, if they have a tile that I don't stock I buy a case and leave it with them (they pay for this) Make sure they understand that if tiles come up there is additional cost.

Kitchen prep is very important.

I let the management team know that I'm not there to clean, nor am I there to move their food, food handling supplies or move all of their equipment. I expect full cooperation from the closing kitchen manager and crew.

I inform then that I will do my utmost best to keep their restaurant clean and safe, but in the end food safety is their responsibility, and they are the ones that will have to deal with their customers if the prep isn't right.

When they except my bid,
I contact the closing manager a few days before and tell them what THEY will need to do before I get there, then I call him/her at the beginning of their shift on the day of the work to remind them, then I show up an hour before they close the kitchen to coach the staff on how to prep the area.

I explain that repairs of this nature may cause hardship on the crew that night, and that I am a guest in the building and appreciate the chance to work with them, that I will do everything in my power to insure that we don't interrupt there operation any more than necessary. But if they want it done and done right it will require their help. or they can pay me a lot more their choice.

MALCO.New.York · 11-15-2008, 06:40 PM

Someone is GOING to get hurt here! You are mixing "Business with Pleasure (your Girl). NEVER does this turn out well. Especially since you do NOT know how to properly execute this task.

If you can handle being "Married" to this particular floor or having your GF lose her job, or both, then by all means, make the MONEY!

97s-dime · 11-16-2008, 12:38 AM

thanks guys......
thanks for you concern about somone getting hurt, my girlfriend and i live together and i dont think a floor could break us up. (it could happen i know)

i know it seems like a am a newbie cause of the questions, but i have done this job in many of my rentals and my father's rehabs but i am not a professional floor layer nor a professional carpenter. i do however pay the upmost attention to any job and do it right or do it twice haha,

i have never done a commercial kitchen and have always been able to take as long as i want to do the jobs. this is where the uncertainty came in because i am on there time.
p.s some of the seemingly stupid questions ie can i just grout over the grout that is there is from a suggestion from her boss. while the thought has crossed my mind before in rental homes i have always taken the hard road and did it the right way.

ps if anyone want to come give a bid and lives works in kc give me an email. cgraczyk13@hotmail dot com

ps rservices if you could take a pic of your modded grinder i would love to see it. i think i got what your saying but just want to be sure.