One for the CTile experts - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Jess · 02-09-2006, 11:53 AM

I am rehabing a rental unit approx 25 yrs old that has a small (40sf) concrete sidewalk with 6" quarry tile. The first 3 feet of the walk has settled and the owner has asked me for suggestions to repair rather than rip it out. He says it settled shortly after the house was built and hasn't worsened in recent years. My gut feeling would be to chisel off the tile on the settled portion ( about 1/4" out of plane). Float it level with a non-shrink grout and set new quarry tile with flex-bond. I told him I would "consult the floor covering experts" - ok experts have at it.

MinConst · 02-09-2006, 12:36 PM

Not personally experienced with this but Mud jacking comes to mind.

R&D Tile · 02-09-2006, 01:29 PM

I assume the base is cracked where it settled?, hard to say without seeing it, but if it's cracked under the tile, you have to remove enough tile to patch or install a new section, then a membrane has to placed over the new and old sections to keep whatever tile above it from cracking there.

If I were to do this job, I would insist on ripping it out, pouring a new walk then tiling over it fresh, the ground where it settled should be filled and tamped before the new concrete base is poured, anything else will just be a bandaid.

This is not a large area to do and very easy if you have done this type of work before.

Bill_Vincent · 02-09-2006, 04:14 PM

It may not have gotten any worse, but I'll guarantee you it moves back and forth, from season to season. I'd discourage your customer from trying to repair it. It won't last.

Tom R · 02-09-2006, 04:50 PM

Do the repair with an expansion joint separating the new from the old, - - use a zip-strip and self-leveling caulk.

R&D Tile · 02-09-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom R

Do the repair with an expansion joint separating the new from the old, - - use a zip-strip and self-leveling caulk.

You can not bridge that joint with a tile and have it last, if going that far, do the whole thing over and correctly, it's a small area, or, have a soft joint in the tile where it spans old and new.

Tom R · 02-09-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R&D Tile

You can not bridge that joint with a tile and have it last, if going that far, do the whole thing over and correctly, it's a small area, or, have a soft joint in the tile where it spans old and new.

I can see you like to 'challenge' everything, - - I got no problem with that, - - but anyway, - - I'm not talking about 'bridging' any joint, - - the self-leveling caulk would be at the same level as the two SEPARATE tiled slabs. They'll be completely independent of each other. The customer is looking for a SOLUTION!!

R&D Tile · 02-09-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom R

I can see you like to 'challenge' everything, - - I got no problem with that, - - but anyway, - - I'm not talking about 'bridging' any joint, - - the self-leveling caulk would be at the same level as the two SEPARATE tiled slabs. They'll be completely independent of each other. The customer is looking for a SOLUTION!!

I gave him a solution before you came and told him a way to do it, your way will fail, first off, what is self leveling caulk, and two seperate pieces of concrete move independent of each other, doesn't matter what's between them, if you bridge that joint without a sheet membrane and even that's taking a chance, I can guarantee you, first bit of movement from either side will crack the tile above.

This has nothing to do with challenging anyone, it's about giving the best information available to a problem that needs a solution, the CORRECT SOLUTION!.

tgeb · 02-09-2006, 06:41 PM

Well you are only talking about 40 sqaure feet, right?

By the time you try and chisel those tiles off, and level the slab, then try to find something that might match the 25 year old tiles that got broken in the removal process. (You know a few will get cracked at minimum) You could easily have replaced the whole thing with new concrete and new tiles.

I would do a tear out and replace.

Tom

tgeb · 02-09-2006, 06:50 PM

Woops, I reread you post and see that you plan to put down new quarry tile anyway.

However I would still not go over the old concrete. I do concrete walks and slabs and driveways and NEVER go over something that has already failed.

YOU will be asked to make good on this if what YOU do fails. Always better to start from the ground up.

Tom

Tom R · 02-09-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R&D Tile

doesn't matter what's between them, if you bridge that joint without a sheet membrane and even that's taking a chance, I can guarantee you, first bit of movement from either side will crack the tile above.

R & D,

Take a deep breath, - - go back and read everything again, - - now try and stop thinking about NOTHING BUT YOURSELF, - - and try to 'absorb' the parts that have been 'glossing' you by, - - read my lips now, - - the tile will not BRIDGE ANYTHING.

And if you don't know what self-leveling caulk is, - - best bet is you probably shouldn't even be in this conversation.

You can take that to the bank, - - just don't SPEND it all at once!!

SHEESH!!

Tom R · 02-09-2006, 07:31 PM

Jess, - - sorry about this R&D clown, - - although ripping it out may indeed be the 'best' fix, - - you made clear at the beginning it was not an option.

In the interest of less 'ankle-biting', - - feel free to PM me for a more detailed explanation of how to make this 'work', - - as this is a fix I have done before.

Bill_Vincent · 02-09-2006, 07:50 PM

Tom-- I've heard of self leveling compound, and I've heard of caulk. But not self leveling caulk. Can you give me a url to check it out?

Jess · 02-09-2006, 07:53 PM

Where do I start - no offense taken by any - stupid question I guess - I'll tell the owner the jury of experts has said "tear it out, ejoint between stable and new - lay new quarry tile - quit trying to shine Sh--! Whats a couple hundred to a Donald Trump like yourself- In 6 months you'll be collecting rent and not have to worry about the tile cracking and somebody tripping, yadda, yadda-

Just a knee jerk reaction to accomodate good client

Jess

Tom R · 02-09-2006, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_Vincent

Tom-- I've heard of self leveling compound, and I've heard of caulk. But not self leveling caulk. Can you give me a url to check it out?

Hmm, - - getting ready to eat dinner in a few, but I will try to.

Any mason would be familiar with it, - - and any local concrete supply yard would carry it.

Tom R · 02-09-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jess

Where do I start - no offense taken by any - stupid question I guess - I'll tell the owner the jury of experts has said "tear it out, ejoint between stable and new - lay new quarry tile - quit trying to shine Sh--! Whats a couple hundred to a Donald Trump like yourself- In 6 months you'll be collecting rent and not have to worry about the tile cracking and somebody tripping, yadda, yadda-

Just a knee jerk reaction to accomodate good client

Jess

Sure, Jess, - - if he'll go for that it's your best bet.

It's actually not a tile problem, - - it's a 'concrete' problem, - - you'd of gotten better answers over there.

Anyway, Good Luck!!

Tom R · 02-09-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_Vincent

Tom-- I've heard of self leveling compound, and I've heard of caulk. But not self leveling caulk. Can you give me a url to check it out?

OK, - - dinnertime, - - but here it is, - - check out page 2 . . .

http://www.quikrete.com/Spec_Data/Po...e_Sealants.pdf

Tom R · 02-09-2006, 08:12 PM

And I'll say it once again, - - before R&D blows another GASKET, - - I'm in NO WAY talking about 'spanning'!!

R&D Tile · 02-09-2006, 08:18 PM

OK, deleted it.

Bill_Vincent · 02-09-2006, 08:26 PM

Interesting. Goes to show you-- I'm too much of a tile man. When you said self leveling caulk, the first thing that came to mind was something elastic in nature that feathered one surface to the other. DUHHH!!